Six of one, half a dozen of the other in my opinion. I guess a bigger college could make bigger or more clubs. Exclusion/not enough space, leads to the same result: not everyone who wants to get in can.
Looks like small LACs are pretty open; larger universities less so.
2 Likes
Appears so.
It’s fascinating watching this list grow as we speak.
Is it too broad to say that the SHYMPs (my new acronym), the other Ivies, and the remaining "T20"s automatically go into the Competitive list?
In fact, the service clubs at Georgetown are competitive.
2 Likes
Gasp. And why on earth would that be?
Probably logistical. They are student-run, and coordinating volunteer hours and activities for 300 is easier than for 3000.
1 Like
But that would be the same for every large-ish school, wouldn’t it? I am actually gratified that you and others like @teleia are pointing out that other schools are open with service clubs.
But reading the developing Georgetown thread, it almost seems like there is an ethos of restriction.
1 Like
The degree of club activity and the relative importance of club membership would vary at each school, too. Maybe all clubs are competitive at Georgetown, but being in a club is not crucial to your experience there, and most are not in any club-like Greek clubs at other places. Perhaps at places with open memberships, the clubs do not serve any pipeline role. I think it is hard to generalize. At some schools not that many kids are interested in or eligible for finance, consulting, or high tech roles anyway
1 Like
Now that I think about it, first come/first served can be exclusionary-my kid’s brownie troop was because frankly the leader couldnt handle more than 15 girls. I understood that.
2 Likes
Harvard is likely among the least stressful elite schools because it has fewer core requirements than most, and a lot of flexibility in fulfilling those requirements. Courses at Harvard range from quite easy to mind-blowingly difficult, but for professors that have taught the course previously, that difficulty can be discovered ahead of time, along with the grading curve by each professor. What most Harvard students do is take hard courses in their area of interest and easier courses elsewhere.
Some clubs are competitive entry though, that’s true.
1 Like
I’ve always thought that the main point of a club was to provide a place for a group of students to connect outside the classroom around a shared interest or activity that they all enjoy. There could be professional benefits to certain clubs or an opportunity to learn, but I’ve mostly thought of clubs as an easy way to make friends who share your interests. So I find it disheartening that some clubs have a competitive or gate keeping feature to limit participation and that students have to compete with each other in order to connect with each other.
On the other hand, it makes sense to me that it can be unwieldy or even impossible to manage club activities if the membership gets too large. On a practical level, maybe there does need to be some gate-keeping. And I suppose that at most colleges, students are free to create their own clubs and organizations if they have been shut out by the competition process. There may be various hurdles and paperwork involved to get official recognization and access to campus resources, but my guess is that at most colleges, the club offerings can expand and contract with student interest. Still I know that my college freshman is finding the competitive aspect club entry requirements to be stressful and a little pretentious.
5 Likes
S18 also found many activities at UCLA that were highly competitive. Tour guiding was one (about 10 selected out of 500 applicants) but that’s not unusual and it was a paid position. SAA (Student Alumni Association) which organizes key campus events like Spring Sing and dinner with 12 strangers is also highly competitive, because it is limited to 100 members. And then board positions in most organizations are pretty competitive, sometimes done by election, but more usually requiring an interview with the existing board to be appointed. Some required writing samples, eg law journal.
UCLA is not a laid back place - it is filled with go getters. Fortunately S enjoyed that part of the experience, he liked running for election! Others probably wouldn’t.
4 Likes
I haven’t seen a career center that can provide the kind of repetitive and intense case practice that can give an applicant an advantage in interviewing with the likes of Bain, McKinsey, or BCG. Most would provide some help, but not with the frequency that a consulting club at a highly selective school would. The consulting club can also provide practical, real life consulting work as many offer services pro bono in the community.
4 Likes
Exactly. That kind of preparation is highly labor intensive and time consuming; the existing club members are not going to be able to provide it to everyone interested, hence the competition to get into the club.
1 Like
My D attended a T20 school with a heavy Greek presence. Although a particular club she was interested in was open to all, she learned very quickly that it was run by certain Greek groups. She quickly found another club that had a similar focus but was not commandeered by any particular other group. So even if they are open to all, some clubs could be pet projects of other groups. That’s a more informal way of excluding people, but it exists. For my D, it wasn’t a big deal because there were other options that filled her particular interest.
2 Likes
Trying to find some grand unifying theme to competitive vs. open club schools. Are the competitive club schools “pre-professional” vis-a-vis non pre-professional"?
I had previously started another thread on “pre-professional” colleges and what that actually meant. There was some good discussion there, and if I can find the link to that, I’ll edit and post it here.
I also wanted to repeat my question asked upthread, so I’ll do it here:
Any thoughts?
I would say it’s too broad a statement. It may apply to some, but I doubt it applies to all.
1 Like
That’s what I would have thought. I would have a hard time seeing Brown on the competitive list from what I know of it.
The Brown consulting club has a competitive admissions process.
I think it is more a function of the number of students seeking employment in those 3 areas. At a school like CalTech, few are-most there are not working immediately upon graduation. So less interest in such careers translates to less interest in such clubs, which are then open.
I think there are some misconceptions around getting a consulting job here (I used to hire for one of the biggies). You do NOT need to have been in one of the various clubs. period, full stop.
Every top firm provides materials prior to the interview which will help a student do well on the case interviews. Drilling 50 times- or whatever intense prep these clubs provide- is truly counter-productive. There is never one right answer to a case interview, there is never one right approach- and in fact, I’ve seen candidates sort of blow the actual case, but come up with such a creative and novel approach that the interviewer sits back and says “Wow”.
It’s like taking your kid who keeps scoring 500 on the SAT and instead of having him sit through 5 prep classes, you figure 50 will get him to 800. No. Endless prepping? Counterproductive.
The so-called “connections” you make being a member of these clubs? Sure, the CEO of Spotify is going to remember your name because you showed up at a symposium on campus where he was speaking, and as a member of the “Business Club” you got to attend the Q&A afterwards. Yup, 100 kids were there and he’s going to remember you…
The advantages in doing pro bono consulting work? HUGE, but you don’t need to be a member of a “club”. Wander by your psych professors office and ask if she’s doing anything interesting in buyer behavior that you could work on. Make an appointment to see your statistics professor and ask him that the next time he hears about an opportunity to help a company with a thorny data analytics problem, could he reach out to you. Done. This is not so hard. Free labor is hard to turn down!
Getting the coaching on “how to behave during a job interview”? Priceless, but that’s what career services does. These are people who get paid to teach this. You want to learn from your “club president” who is 20 years old and the only job she’s ever had is working at Dunkin?
Remind me of the other supposed benefits of these clubs. And the downside-- endless practice, coaching, prepping… when kids could be taking advantage of musical performances, political debates, working on a cool research project with a professor which has zero pre-professional advantages but enormous benefit to society— which would employers rather?
College is not a 4 year apprenticeship for a life at Boston Consulting Group (or Goldman Sachs or DE Shaw). Join a club that DOES SOMETHING instead of a club which preps you for the next rung on the illusory ladder. It is not a race.
18 Likes