Complain about your too high EFC thread

Paying for College
281

<p>This is in response to #269, by gimmechocolate (can’t figure out how to quote a thread)</p>

<p>Our annual income is under $100K (which in the NY metro area is not a lot) and our EFC is in the high 30s, so I feel your pain. We too drive older cars, don’t have a fancy house, don’t take vacations that involve airplanes and are struggling. Not sure if my husband will be able to retire before his 70s. Not complaining, just stating the facts–I’m grateful every day that he has a job and that we have our health. </p>

<p>Someone else referenced the fact that when you go to college open houses, etc. they all, almost without exception say, “don’t let the cost of tuition deter you from applying, financial aid makes it possible.” That message is repeated by HS GCs too. They all say, “it works out, don’t worry.” And, as you look around your community at where other families of similar means are sending their kids, it kind of makes you think, “well, if all these people are doing it, it must work out somehow.” Naive? Absolutely, but when it’s your first child going through it, you tend to believe what the experts you look to for advice tell you. You read all the reports that tell you the average student graduates from your child’s target schools with between $10-$20k in debt–that’s manageable. But then you are hit in the face with the reality that they’d need to borrow that much EACH YEAR. That’s crazy.</p>

<p>Thankfully, my child does have a financial safety, or at least it’s a choice that will result in a manageable dept load, but in all honesty, after visiting I’m discouraged about it. I’m trying to keep up a positive face for her sake but I’m afraid it really isn’t the right place for her. Demographically, the student body isn’t one I can see her fitting into, and while they do have the academic program she wants and yes, that is why you go to college, if she’s not happy and doesn’t make friends, it will be harder for her to be successful. There was definitely not that “this is the place” feeling we got at some of the other schools she’s been accepted by. The kicker is, I never would have believed it a year ago but she’s gotten into every school she’s applied to. It kills me that she worked that hard to achieve that goal, and now we can’t make it happen for her. I don’t mean to shun responsibility for our situation, quite the opposite, but we THOUGHT we researched carefully and asked all the right questions, but apparently, we did not. I feel terrible. I never would have encouraged her to apply to the schools she did, despite what her GC said, had I realized what reality is. Wish I’d found this website a year or more ago! We will certainly take a completely different approach for our younger child.</p>

282

<p>

</p>

<p>That is an accurate presumption. An EFC of $30K assumes 1/3 will come from savings, 1/3 from current income, 1/3 from future loans. If you can pay $10K/yr out of current income, then you can pay $10K/yr to service the loan portion.</p>

283

<p>

Well, each to his/her own, but I can tell you how we do it:
– No 50k/year colleges
– Two kids, rather than three, or four, or more
– Occasional trips to visit parents, two resort vacations ala frugal
– A lot of parenting effort into the kids to improve merit aid. My kids went to the ‘Dad’ SAT prep school, and the ‘Mom’ school of good grades.
– The most economical cars available, replaced when they die
– Public schooling
– Modest house relative to income, which has allowed us to pay it off early
– Avoidance of lifestyle choices that increase risk of poor health.</p>

<p>You and I are quite fortunate that we have been able to choose how to spend our incomes through the years.</p>

284

<p>Someone else referenced the fact that when you go to college open houses, etc. they all, almost without exception say, “don’t let the cost of tuition deter you from applying, financial aid makes it possible.” That message is repeated by HS GCs too. They all say, "it works out, don’t worry."</p>

<p>That is the biggest bunch of hooey I’ve ever heard. Colleges say that bunk to get people to apply to their schools in hopes that they will hook them into going. </p>

<p>If it were true that it “will all work out,” why do we have so many grads buried in debt?</p>

285

<p>but in all honesty, after visiting I’m discouraged about it. I’m trying to keep up a positive face for her sake but I’m afraid it really isn’t the right place for her. Demographically, the student body isn’t one I can see her fitting into, and while they do have the academic program she wants and yes, that is why you go to college, if she’s not happy and doesn’t make friends, it will be harder for her to be successful. There was definitely not that “this is the place” feeling we got at some of the other schools she’s been accepted by.</p>

<hr>

<p>I understand how you feel. Please, please, please, though … do NOT telegraph the above feelings to your child. I can assure you that not being “happy” in college does NOT make it “harder for her to be successful.” Rather than focus on the negatives, accentuate the positives. Help your D find the silver lining, and help her to bloom where she is planted. </p>

<p>Will she “LOVE” her school? Maybe, maybe not. Can she find a measure of contentment and a fine education at her school? Probably. Attitude will help. Keep it positive.</p>

<p>One thing I have discovered in my half century on earth … there is more than one path to where we are supposed to end up. We don’t always know which one we are supposed to travel … we can’t always travel the one we want to travel … we sometimes pick the wrong one … but in the end, we CAN get to where we “should” be. </p>

<p>Stay positive. Work to make what “is” the best it can be. Do not be disappointed. If your D has worked hard & been successful, she will continue to thrive. Honest.</p>

286

<p>"I wish my parents didn’t just sit on their money…
My EFC was >99999
god im just not going to get anything… "</p>

<p>^^^
"Think of all the money you’re going to inherit…someday. "</p>

<p>Most likely the parents will need all the money they can get their hands on during retirement.</p>

287

<p>^^^</p>

<p>Or if they’re like my parents, they still won’t spend it. My dad (who is almost 90!!) still says that he needs to save it for his OLD AGE!!! LOL</p>

288

<p>^^^^
An income that produces an EFC > 99999?
If they are going to need ALL their money during retirement then their goals seem somewhat lofty.</p>

289

<p>^^ really - How old are you? Our efc was 99999. You can make 200k a year, and have what some consider high assets such as 1 million. Using the standard 4% rate for how much can be used so that your money lasts your lifetime, this equals 40K a year. Assume somebody has the maximum from SS = ~ 26k a year. 66k a year is not a lot if you consider healthcare expenses and if you’ve been living on 200k a year. Most people won’t make it.</p>

290

<p>DocT, just a couple minor nits to pick –
The standard 4% of savings spent during retirement <em>in general</em> does not eat into principal,
Most people have (should have?) much lower monthly cash flows in retirement than years when kids are in the house or going to college;
Medicare kicks in at age 65 or thereabouts;
and 200k is not 3x 66k after taxes are paid ;-)</p>

<p>I agree though, two kids and $500k spent to put them through full cost expensive undergrad will put a crimp in the retirement lifestyle of the professional crowd, too.</p>

291

<p>An income that produces an EFC > 99999?</p>

<p>I don’t think the family has an INCOME that produces that EFC. I think these are super savers who have accumulated assets that give that kind of EFC. My dad never earned (by salary) more than $50k a year, yet he has assets in the 7 figures. He’s cheap. He has a saying…“You can only spend a dollar once.” LOL…he won’t even spend it once. </p>

<p>You know those businessmen who post their first earned dollar on the wall? My dad has every earned dollar on the wall…it’s sort of his wallpaper ;)</p>

292

<p>^the 4% assumes that assets are growing at least the rate of inflation something that has not happened the last 10 years with the S&P. Also, Medicare doesn’t cover everything.</p>

293

<p>^^It depends on when your father was earning 50K. 30 years ago, 50k was a large salary.</p>

294

<p>

</p>

<p>Haha with a little luck I’m at that caliber. UChicago’s my current first choice, the equivalent of full tuition is pretty much given to me due to financial aid. Throw in a NMS and possibly a few more scholarships here and there to knock off the ~$5000 student earnings expectation and I’ll end up paying maybe 6000, 8000 hopefully. But if I get into HYPS, then it’s full ride, so I’m hoping…</p>

295

<p>DocT, picking on the last 10 years makes about as much sense as picking on the 10 years before that. Put the two decades together, and in fact look at two decades worth of returns starting from just about any year in the past 75, and my statement holds.</p>

296

<p>Which statement is that?</p>

297

<p>

Really? Personal insults? How old are YOU?

As has already been pointed out…your math assumes that the principal is never touched…thus my statement to the poster that s/he should “Think of all the money you’re going to inherit…someday.” may well be accurate.</p>

298

<p>Short term memory loss, DocT ? Allow me to help you

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you can connect your statement with mine.</p>

299

<p>i don’t really understand this thread. when you apply to colleges, especially privates and OOS schools, you know that they will be expensive and you probably can’t afford it. i don’t think it’s fair to complain about EFCs when you’re getting yourself into it in the first place. with the exception of state schools, i really don’t think it’s fair to complain. what makes you so special to deserve having someone else pay for you? it doesn’t matter if it’s alumni, endowments, etc. who are you that you think you should get free tuition? </p>

<p>i realize that that probably doesn’t apply to the super geniuses who get full rides from hypsm and all those schools, but that’s because then you actually do deserve it. </p>

<p>just my 2 cents. (maybe i’m a DL republican? not sure how i feel about that lol)</p>

300

<p>^^ Colleges advertise fulfillment of 100% of need, so parents argue over what need is. </p>

<p>From my perspective as a frugal parent, I can see the system’s weakness in giving financial aid to families that consumed rather than saved. On the other hand, savings <em>are</em> weighted much lighter than current income, insuring that savers are much better off than spenders, all else being equal. It’s not a perfect system to be sure, but not horrible. I personally have no problem living with my choice not to send my kids to $50k/year colleges, since upward mobility and social success are well within the means of students who attend $10 - 15k/year colleges if they are bright (brilliance not required), and motivated.</p>