@arabrab, I respectfully disagree with that approach. A high stats kid (as I am presuming OP’s kid may be due to his college list) should apply to a school such as NYU if it offers a great program of interest. It seems defeatist to presume that the aid will not be offered without even trying.
“…a terrible waste of time…” NYU is on the common app, and it appears there is just one, short supplemental essay. For arts applicants, the art to be submitted would already be completed for other schools. So, we are talking about one additional essay, an app fee, and the cost to send a test score, which is far less effort than what is required for many, many other colleges (many of which offer NO merit aid at all, ONLY need-based aid).
As long as the kid understands that the price has to be right, I just don’t get advising a kid to not even try…for any school, not just NYU.
@prospect1 I don’t ever assume high stats based on a school list. Many students and families who are new to the college application process have limited awareness about admission requirements and how they compare to other applicants. I’m not saying that is the case here, but I have seen it often. They tend to overlook that every other candidate’s stats are most likely close or as good as theirs. In the case of the OP, the only stats reported were a weighted GPA of 4.266 and that her son is taking 4 AP classes this year. Standardized test scores were not provided.
I have to agree with prospect1 here. The very fact that NYU aid is totally unpredictable means someone interested in the school can only find out how it works for himself by actually applying. The odds are it won’t work out, sure, just like the odds are against HYPS admission … which is no reason not to apply.
I can honestly say that with each of my kids, surprises were the norm, not the exception, in terms of acceptances, AND scholarships. Maybe mine were all just outliers, but there were some real shockers, good and bad. And I have been reading this forum for many years, advised my kids well on their lists (at least I thought so!), and had them consult with professionals when appropriate.
My only takeaway from this process is that today’s students need to cast an ever wider net to snag the fish they want. There’s a lot more (and better!) boats out there trawling the waters than ever before! And make sure to bring a sandwich or two on your boat in case the fish aren’t biting…
For students who need Merit or financial aid to be able to go to college, applying to any school, such as NYU, which is known to not meet need, IS a waste of time.
Any student who needs outside $$ should first go to the NPC and run the numbers. Then believe then. Why waste any time at all on applying to a college you cant afford to go to?
“Magical thinking” or wishing on a star wont make $$ fall from the skies or an unaffordable college suddenly affordable.
NYU’s NPC is a useless piece of garbage. Going on what it says would make no sense.
Not ONE of the NPCs we used were accurate for us, by a long shot. Not ONE. And the offers were wildly across the board (from 0 to full merit). This is not unique to NYU; it is a fault of many, many colleges.
@menloparkmom - “For students who need Merit or financial aid to be able to go to college, applying to any school, such as NYU, which is known not to meet need, IS a waste of time.”
Is NYU “known” not to meet need for EVERYONE? Says who? NYU most assuredly will and does meet need - and more - for some. How do we know OP’s kid won’t be one of them?
Many students who need merit or financial aid do not necessarily need a full ride. 1/2 off of NYU, or 1/3, or 3/4, may be more than sufficient for many applicants, and could end up being their best and most affordable offer. I don’t know what OP’s financial needs are, but if OP is a middle class applicant with some assets, Columbia could make a worse offer than NYU.
This thread has turned into a “pick on NYU” thread, but really there are so many colleges that loudly promote their amazing, fantastic financial aid (“we meet full need!”…and then define “need” very narrowly) … to drum up applicants …and then fall utterly short of the mark when the awards come out. I find these “bait and switch” colleges to be far more despicable than NYU, who (it seems from all of these posts) has done a good job of honestly letting it be widely “known” that they will not promise affordability for everyone.
NYU is an amazing university with unique NYC opportunities that could be a perfect fit for OP’s music-loving business major son. How can anybody say it would be a waste of time for OP to apply to this college? SMH.
I am so appreciative of all the well thought responses to my queries about scholarships. I am overwhelmed by the amount of help and interest you have all given so far. Wow! First I would like to answer a couple of questions that made a difference to answers that I was not clear about at first. We are self employed, have a gross income of around $100,000 and our junior high schooler is an only child. Also, I did not reveal test scores. I will give you the ones he has taken primarily. He is due to take the PSAT this fall for merit finalist and is to take the ACT in September, and of course will again, and again.
He took the PSAT in 10th grade and received a 68 in critical reading, a 69 in mathematics and a 63 in writing. So 99 of sophs in reading and math and 97 in writing.
ACT grade 9 he had a composite score of 27, 99th percentile US. English 26, Math 28, Reading 27, Science 28
All in all, 97th to 99th percentile. Does this give a clearer picture? Thanks again so much. I cannot believe how helpful you have been. I will recommend this site again and again.
Well my son will be happy to hear this. He is in love with New York! I appreciate this view.
We are going through the applications process now as my son is a rising senior. As a mother, I totally understand wanting to facilitate and guide your student to achieve his goal of getting into his “dream school” I’d like to offer some general observations and advice about the admissions process.
- It’s great that you are beginning your search now. We started as a Junior and it really helped guide the process.
- “Dream schools” ranking on his list may change after several college visits.
- Determine what the bottom line is financially for a school to remain on your potential admit list. It’s extremely difficult to squash dreams because a school is not affordable . As parents , we want to give our students the best of everything. , what they dream of etc. Some parents who have every intention of saying no once it is determined that a school is not financially reasonable to attend are unable to do it when the time comes .
- Know your child. Will they be able to make the very adult decision to walk away from their dream school if necessary ? If you don’t know with a reasonable amount of certainty that he will be able to walk away, don’t place him in the difficult position where he will need to.
- Lastly, realize as parents we sometimes have a difficult time realizing that while our child’s stats may be impressive, so are most every other child pursing that school . Your child is competing for a limited number of spots for admissions with many others who are just as deserving of admission . That is a hard pill to swallow for many of us. I can’t tell you how many times on college tours and info sessions we were asked " What makes you any different from anyone else in this room ?"
This is meant to provide you with some general info, not to dissuade you from applying to NYU. Good luck in your process . It can be very overwhelming at times. Do your homework and it makes
decisions much easier.
While some have said that the NPC is useless, as family a with income from being self employed, the net price calculators are really going to be useless for you.
As an old jaded New Yorker, who have seen a lot of NYU financial aid packages, I still cannot wrap my mind around all of the hoopla with NYU. I say this as a person who holds 2 graduate degrees from them; for me it was an easier commute coming from work and my employer paid for it.
IMHO, with the exception of the undergrad schools Tisch and Stern, one can certainly go to better schools for less money and NYC certainly is not going anywhere. NYU’s grad programs are a different conversation.
I can understand where prospect is coming from; if they were a full freight paying family, and they got 20k, 25, 30k in merit, than it was a nice discount and worth it for their child to attend NYU in comparison to some of the other financial aid packages they received.
However, this is not the case for most of the starry-eyed NYU new admits whose families need the who need a really big financial aid package to make it work. From what I have seen, even of low income students who are admitted through NYU through the HEOP program (one of the few instances where they will meet full need), those students still graduate with every single loan that NYU can toss at them.
What you have to decide is how much you are willing to pay/borrow for your son to go to college. If you end up being full freight payers (receiving no financial aid) at any of the schools you have listed, will it be a financially feasible option for your family.
If your son can net some merit money~ 25k, will you be comfortable paying the remaining 40K. These are questions that you need to sit down as a family to discuss.
If you are willing to expand your horizons beyond NYU NY to the world, you may want to consider NYUAD or NYUSH. My D graduated from NYUAD, with semesters in NY, Germany, Shanghai. The FA packages are pretty sweet.
^^ good point, but this might not have the advantage of the music business contact and internships that NYU students in new york get exposed to.
Also Sara, if your son makes NMF that will open up a lot of merit opportunities, not always for your first choices maybe but good choices. USC gives 1/2 tuition merit to NMF. So with his scores he should prep and be ready and well rested for PSAT, some kids don’t need to if they aren’t close, but close is important to get it.
USC has a number of good music and business programs but they also have something new: USC Jimmy Iovine and Andre Young Academy for Arts, Technology and the Business of Innovation. I don’t know what is going on with it, I think they just started admitting to it last year.
As the self employed parent of a University of Southern Calif grad, who was admitted to many other top private schools, being self employed and earning $$100K will REALLY throw off you ability to get good FA at most private colleges. If they use the Profile to calculate FA for instance, their FA offices will add your self directed IRA contributions for the prior year back into to your INCOME in their calculations- regardless of the fact that they dont do that for non self employed applicants [ those who have pensions or 401k’s] and that money cant be used for college expenses! 
My advise is to encourage your DS to prep rigorously for the PSAT this summer- Khan Academy has online courses for the SAT and studying them will help him do great on the PSAT.
That ONE test can mean hundreds of thousands of $$ of merit $$.
And USC , with its automatic 1/2 tuition National merit scholarships for accepted NMF’s, offers everything that NYU does for UG’s, but their huge endowment means it can be more affordable for top students.
@Menloparkmom, FAFSA and CSS do add back as income 401k and IRA contributions to income from the year before. For pensions, it depends on the type of contributions, but mine were after tax anyway, so were already included as income.
OP, $100k puts you on the verge of getting nothing at a lot of “need-only” colleges, with only one child, and particularly if you have decent assets (do you?) If that is the case, don’t drink the kool-aid and believe that your “need” will be met by such colleges…it probably won’t if you are expecting a lot of money. Have your kid apply, but be prepared for some awful packages. Perhaps you are willing to pay for a Columbia if he gets in, even if it means full pay. This is the kind of thing you need to be thinking about, and make sure your son is FULLY AWARE of your limits and expectations when it comes to the cost.
As others have pointed out, if that Columbia acceptance comes in at full pay, it will be up to YOU to tell your son “no” if you are not willing to invest a quarter of a million for his undergraduate education. OTOH, perhaps it is worth it to you. That’s your call. But, setting the expectations at the outset is critical if you have a number in mind that is final.
Since the purpose of your post was to inquire about scholarships and financial aid, my advice remains to apply to a host of target schools and make sure to include a few clearly affordable ones that your son likes. Both NYU and USC have merit possibilities if they love your kid’s application, or both could demand full pay from you (depending on those assets). Therefore, you cannot count on either one to fit the bill here.
The national merit 1/2 off at USC is automatic, so there is that certainty. But keep in mind that is only 1/2 off TUITION, not 1/2 off the whole bill. Still, it’s a good deal if you are willing to foot the rest of the bill. USC has a music industry program that is amazing, albeit very selective.
BTW, if it is your son’s goal to have a blended business/music major, then he should also be focusing on an arts supplement. He would want to submit it to any college offering this type of blended major.
Maybe someone has addressed this but what you consider your net in self-employment isn’t likely to be the number the colleges do. More than just retirement contributions get added back in I think. Someone else can maybe speak about this.
Re posts #34 & #35; I thought that 401k contributions were added back in for W-2 employees, as well, during the school attendance years. My DS is in a FAFSA school, and I did not look closely at the effect of the entries when filling out the form. Does anyone know? And for CSS schools, I can’t imagine that they would allow you to contribute to your own retirement in lieu of paying tuition.
I would really be interested to know.
I doubt very much that they would be full payers at Columbia. However your EFC would likely be 17 at FAFSA schools and 25 to 35 at privates if you were not self employed. So depending on your deductions and any value of business you are looking at a worse situation as far as what schools think you need. And if you are going to pay 20 or 25 you would need a full tuition at NYU which is not likely to happen. Elsewhere room/board/expenses/books may be 15.
Yes 401 are added back for everyone. For self employed cell phone, cars and other things that contribute to standard of living perhaps.