Hello all, I’d appreciate any and all help/opinions on this decision!
Here’s my pro/con list: Michigan/color Pros:
-instate tuition
-school spirit and thriving social life
-good engineering program
-research opportunities
-large endowment, plenty of funding/$$
-ann arbor
-maize and blue are good colors Cons:
-I really, really don’t want to stay instate. I feel like it’s just the status quo…but that’s really the only thing keeping me from falling in love with Michigan
-also cold weather [color=red]Cornell/color Pros:
-beautiful campus
-good engineering program (not sure if better or worse than UMich)
-research opportunities, but I think fewer than Michigan
-ivy league = attracts all sorts of diverse people
-very academic
-bill nye is an alum
-named a tradition fellow which I guess gives more aid
-close knit campus
-unlike umich, half the students aren’t from michigan
-^in the same vein, it’s oos Cons:
-no big, exciting, school spirit-y football games or sports activities
-ithaca (haven’t visited yet, but seems like it’s in the middle of nowhere)
-“go big red”<<<“go blue” & red isn’t my color either
-brutal winters
-over twice as expensive as Michigan
And the other two aren’t as big contenders in my mind, but they do pop up every once in a while (especially GA Tech), so I wanted to mention them and make sure I wasn’t missing out on anything about them [color=yellow]Georgia Tech Pros:
-good engineering program (I think on par with or better than Michigan’s?)
-amazing weather
-accepted to Grand Challenges, which is a really cool residential research project program
-atlanta
-great food, city life, plenty to do
-funny emails Cons:
-i feel like the tech focus makes it not as well-rounded or diverse (major-wise) as other schools
-my (probably stereotypical) view of the south
-why pay extra for nearly the same thing as michigan (unless they’re actually not that similar?) Rice Pros:
-happiest students & best quality of life (according to rankings)
-houston (and NASA is cool)
-amazing weather
-i love, love the residential college system Cons:
-pretty much the main reason I haven’t really considered Rice is that I don’t think its engineering is as good as the other schools, but if I’m wrong feel free to correct me!
Sorry for such a long list, I’m just incapable of making decisions haha! Unfortunately, I didn’t get into any of my three dream schools, so I’m finding it hard to get really excited about any of these options. I’d be grateful for any help or thoughts! Thanks a lot guys!
If you decide to go to Michigan you will find that your experience on campus is very different because there are so many OOS kids. CS will keep you so busy you will be losing your mind anyway, and you can go home for laundry . Cornell is a long drive and colder too and similar to Michigan in a lot of ways (Andrew Dickson White was a Michigan professor before going to Cornell) . I would seriously consider going to Rice owl days later this week to get a better idea of what it would be actually like ; you have a 2 big public schools, the biggest Ivy, and a boutique, smaller scale university on your list - that would give you a better contrast (assuming Rice is affordable).
@rjkofnovi Well, money isn’t a barrier in the sense that if a college is worth it my parents would be willing to pay, but there’s no reason to waste money on an education that would be “equal” to Michigan’s, if that makes sense. Like if there’s two TVs with the same quality and you can technically afford both, you’d still buy the cheaper one. I pretty much knew that everyone would say that about Michigan, but I’m in denial a little bit because I could have coasted for a lot of high school and still got in, so I feel like any extra effort I put in was kinda wasted…
@TooOld4School I don’t know how accurate the USNews rankings are, but Rice isn’t in the Top 12 for Undergrad Engineering (the list gets cut off after that) and the other 3 schools are (GA Tech being highest ranked). I know I can’t really go off the rankings but I wasn’t sure how to accurately compare their programs otherwise. I do love everything else about Rice, though, I just thought that if its engineering didn’t hold up I should rule it out.
I think it depends on which sort of environment you feel would work best for you. At Rice the (engineering) faculty student ratio is 5.4:1. At Michigan it is 18.3:1 . That isn’t necessarily indicative of quality, but it does mean you will have to be much more aggressive and self-motivated in finding opportunities. I think it is more of fit issue.
Please tell me you’re kidding about listing school colors and Bill Nye as factors. (Why do so many high school,senior seem to think they’re going to be required to wear school colors on a constant basis?)
I know you’re from Michigan and apparently would like to get away from the cold, but Houston isn’t Southern California. The only people who think the weather in Houston is fabulous are the ones who love heat and humidity. I suspect Atlanta is the same way. You may be one of those people, but if weather is a consideration for you, don’t just think about February in various locations. Think about May and September, too.
Have you visited any of these schools? Seeing what you think of the atmosphere and the people can be an important factor.
You can use the money saved by attending UMich on study abroad programs. You can also try to select internships in other parts of the country and of course, look for a job or grad school in a different part of the country. Yes, UMich makes the most sense and is an excellent option.
TooOldForSchool, regarding post #4, your student:faculty ratios are off. Very few universities truly have ratios better than 10:1, and Rice is no exception. I have not looked at the actual figure, but I am almost certain you are looking at a ratio that includes only undergraduate students for Rice, and includes graduate students for Michigan. A rule of thumb is 10:1 ratio at smaller research universities. Michigan’s ratio is not 18:1, it is 15:1. Like most things, a university with 40,000 students is going to benefit from economies of scale. It is hard to compare things such as spending per student, endowment per student and student per faculty at a university with 7,000 students (like Rice) to one that is six times larger, like Michigan, because of economies of scale. But I do not think it is harder to take advantage of available resources at a school like Michigan than it is at a school like Rice.
Feel free to research it further, but I would say when it comes to student to faculty rations, assuming you include graduate students, it is 10:1 for Rice and 15:1 for Michigan.
I’m a tech professional in Silicon Valley, and I’d say the graduates of Rice and Cornell are among the most intelligent, well-rounded and successful people I’ve met. I personally think these schools are worth the extra cost.
I would highly advocate a better look at Rice - it has an incredibly good CS program and is a great school. By reputation, one could argue it is the best for CS quite easily.
How much is Rice? Is it more or less than Cornell?
How much would you be paying total for the following for all 4 years? How much of each would be loans?
Michigan - X Total, Y Loans
Rice - X Total, Y Loans
Cornell - X Total, Y Loans
I think you should eliminate the more expensive of Rice / Cornell, and decide between those two based on affordability and fit, keeping in mind Rice’s CS level as a pro over Michigan.
@Alexandre , the overall Faculty/Student ratio according to US News at Rice is 6:1, and engineering is a bit less. I calculated the 18:1 Michigan ratio from the UM Engineering web site, dividing the total number of engineering students by the sum of engineering faculty, research faculty, and lecturers.
Grad students are included with both
I also just checked TooOld4School, and your figures are way off. Like I said, there are very, very few research universities that have a better than 10:1 ratio when you include graduate students. Rice has 3,900 undergraduate students and 2,200 graduate students (not including MBA students since those do not share the same faculty). So 6,100 students in total) with a faculty of 670. So Rice’s student to faculty ratio is roughly 10:1. Michigan has 28,000 undergraduate students and 9,000 graduate students (who share the same faculty), so 37,000 students with a faculty of 2,500. So Michigan’s student to faculty ratio is 15:1.
Also, Rice’s engineering student to faculty ratio is not less than 6:1. Again, that is not including the 900 or so graduate engineering students enrolled in the program. Rice has 1,300 undergraduate students and 900 graduate students, so 2,200 engineering students, with a faculty of 120. As such, the Engineering student to faculty ratio at Rice is 19:1. Which is fairly standard for a major research program. Michigan has 5,800 undergraduate engineering students, and 3,200 graduate engineering students, so a total of 9,000 engineering students, with a faculty of 490. As such, the Engineering student to faculty ratio at Michigan is also 19:1. Columbia and Stanford have engineering student to faculty ratios that flirt with 25:1.
I’m sorry you didn’t get into your dream schools (CMU, MIT, Stanford?) but honestly this is an excellent selection.
You’re wrong, and I’m feeling free to correct you
Go to Rice. Seriously. You seem to prefer it over the others (and your points are all very valid). Being somewhere you like is much much more important than rankings - since all these schools rank closely enough that the difference is inconsequential in terms of your outcome – how you perform in school have a much greater impact on your outcome than which of these you choose.
(by the way, sweltering humid summer heat is anything but “amazing weather”, but winters at Rice will certainly be more pleasant than Mich or Cornell)
This is a difficult decision. especially between Cornell, Michigan and Rice. Is Rice also almost twice as expensive as Michigan, or did Rice offer you a financial aid package? I cannot see the justification in paying twice as much for Cornell or Rice.
I’d say class size is a much more important factor than student/faculty ratio. Student/faculty ratio seems to be gamed by a lot of schools because US News considers it in its rankings, and a lot of those faculty won’t be available to undergraduate students.
Unless there’s a particular CS specialty or track you’re interested in at one of the schools you’re thinking of attending, paying extra money to leave the state won’t necessarily gain you a better CS education. All of the schools listed are pretty good. But if you really feel like you need to leave Michigan and can afford it, I’d say do it. I stayed in-state for my freshman year of college and hated it. Transferring to an out-of-state school the next year was one of the best decisions of my life, although in my case, out-of-state tuition at my new school wasn’t much more expensive than my in-state tuition had been.
I generally agree if it were for the education alone. However, if the OP desperately wants to “get out of Dodge” - which sounds like the case - and they can afford it, then it could be worth it. If you have money, that’s what it’s for (spending on things that are very important to you). But that depends on the OP’s financial situation, which only they can determine.
insanedreamer, Ann Arbor is completely different from the rest of Michigan (just like Austin is very different from the rest of Texas), and with 10,000 OOS undergraduate students and 2,000 international undergraduate students, it is safe to say that the OP can have the experience he seeks at the University of Michigan. If Rice or Cornell were better, I would not see anything wrong spending more money, but even if the OP’s parents can easily overlook the extra $100k to attend Cornell or Rice, I do not think it is worth it.
“I’d say class size is a much more important factor than student/faculty ratio. Student/faculty ratio seems to be gamed by a lot of schools because US News considers it in its rankings, and a lot of those faculty won’t be available to undergraduate students.”
I agree simba9, although I think those same universities that “game” student to faculty ratios are just as likely to “game” class size, and for the same reasons (the rankings).
“I pretty much knew that everyone would say that about Michigan, but I’m in denial a little bit because I could have coasted for a lot of high school and still got in, so I feel like any extra effort I put in was kinda wasted…”
If you honestly believe that you could have “coasted” for much of high school to get into Michigan, than perhaps you should go out of state.
. Cornell is a long drive and colder too and similar to Michigan in a lot of ways (Andrew Dickson White was a Michigan professor before going to Cornell) . I would seriously consider going to Rice owl days later this week to get a better idea of what it would be actually like ; you have a 2 big public schools, the biggest Ivy, and a boutique, smaller scale university on your list - that would give you a better contrast (assuming Rice is affordable).