<p>Departemnts at all companies that I have worked for (including one place that was actually local government) did everything. I have been writing and updating and customizing computer programs, but there are others in the same department who are taking care of communications, hardware and many other functions that needed for computer based systems to function. Parts of the department might be even in different country operating under the same manager. For example, half of my team is in USA and another half of it is in Europe (not outsourced, but working for the same department taking care of specific function around the clock and at the same time doing lots of new developments). All PC type of functions are also part of the same department, as well as mainframe and midrange. I have no idea what you mean.</p>
<p>thank you so much! I’m starting to understand something finally! 
So now I am thinking to major/minor in business (Management Information Systems/Management) and engineering (Computer Science). I know it’s going to be hard. So I was looking at different colleges like RPI (great engineering programs but no business programs), UConn (good business programs and solid engineering), and Drexel (easier to get in). How could I apply to a college and go to 2 different schools/departments (business and engineering) in order to make a double major (or 1 minor)? Drexel has a combined business/engineering major but is it worth considering/going to? I’m looking more to top schools like RPI, NYU, BU, Cornell. What colleges would you recommend to consider for these majors? So, these are my three questions. Thank you!</p>
<p>MiamiDap:
I’m running out of ways to say it but you’re generally describing IT functions - not functions by companies that typically develop major software applications. Maybe you haven’t worked for a company that does software development other than that associated with IT departments in the support of applications and infrastructure, i.e. for an engineering/development company, but again, they exist and they’re considered different areas. Often it would fall under the ‘engineering’ department as opposed to the IT department. To state it another way - the development of the routers that major networing companies manufacture typically would be part of an engineering/development group and not part of the IT group for that company. The same is true for the software and firmware that goes into that network product as well. You mentioned mainframes/servers - the hardware design and the software and application development that are part of those systems is typically a part of the engineering department (of which ‘software engineering/development’ would be a part of) - not the IT department. Lots of companies have IT departments but not engineering/development departments because they’re not a development organization - consider the difference between banking, corporate, government, etc. which have IT departments but not engineering/development and Microsoft, Oracle, Google, IBM, Sun, Lockheed, Northrup, etc. that have both an engineering/development department since they’re actually developing the applications and an IT department to support their business.</p>
<p>thank you so much! I’m starting to understand something finally! So now I am thinking to major/minor in business (Management Information Systems/Management) and engineering (Computer Science). I know it’s going to be hard. So I was looking at different colleges like RPI (great engineering programs but no business programs), UConn (good business programs and solid engineering), and Drexel (easier to get in).
- How could I apply to a college and go to 2 different schools/departments (business and engineering) in order to make a double major (or 1 minor)?
- Drexel has a combined business/engineering major but is it worth considering/going to? I’m looking more to top schools like RPI, NYU, BU, Cornell.
- What colleges would you recommend to consider for these majors?
So, these are my three questions. Thank you!</p>
<p>Whatever, I have never worked in some Development departement. I have done brand new programs, systems as well as maintaining the existing ones in several languages and most existing platforms (not much on PCs though). Whatever it is, just go for it if you like it. My degree is in Computer Science, it included tons of Business classes (accounting, finance, economics, marketing, management…etc.) as well as lots of computer classes. But whatever they teach you in school take as a prep. to learn on your own at any and every place of your employment. My MBA was in Information Systems, but again it was lots of business classes as well as computer classes. Graduate business school is easier than UG, I advise to get an MBA, most companies pay. I actually paid only for CC, the rest was paid by varius employers, while I was working full time as a Computer Programmer/Analyst.</p>
<p>ucsd<em>ucla</em>dad has it right. You have IT which maintains systems, IS which programs and may implement systems and software engineering/software development. Companies like Microsoft, Cisco, Oracle, Google, Apple, RedHat, EMC, etc. They create software that’s used by many other companies and individuals. The processes used in creating software for use by many others are different than those departments in companies programming software for only their company.</p>
<p>The best document that explains the general area and course for the various computing disciplines is at: <a href=“http://www.acm.org/education/education/curric_vols/CC2005-March06Final.pdf[/url]”>http://www.acm.org/education/education/curric_vols/CC2005-March06Final.pdf</a></p>
<p>In software engineering, performance, maintainability, and support are often very important factors. If you improve performance 10% on an algorithm, you may improve life for hundreds of millions of users. In (IS) application programming, processors are so fast that you can use quite inefficient algorithms to accomplish the task and it won’t matter. Some of these software engineering code bases run to millions or tens of millions of lines of code. You need to divide your organization into smaller teams to work on projects this big.</p>
<p>I’ve worked in IS departments doing programmer/analyst work, I’ve done consulting but have worked in software engineering for the last 25 years and software engineering (or development) is quite different from IS development.</p>
<p>Ah, u<em>u</em>d, I am going to guess that you live in California, where many companies are in the business of writing software and selling it. In that case, where the main product of the company is to produce a software product to sell, then you would have a “software development” division, separate from the internal systems & applications area (what I think you are calling IT). And, of course, there are many, many jobs for computer science majors in those companies. But there are also hundreds of thousands of jobs for companies that do not have software development as their primary business focus, and those companies typically have only one technology division as I described above. I think this is a difference in geography 
Of course, there are software development companies outside CA, but a much smaller percentage of the computer related jobs (okay, except in Redmond…) are for actual sofware companies.</p>
<p>So, OP, both perspectives are correct, but it depends on which type of company you are looking at. Just an FYI, Fortune 500 companies that are not in the software business often have very large technology departments (I have worked with companies that have several thousand in some computer-intensive industries like financial services).</p>
<p>I don’t know how the job market splits percentage-wise on this (% of computer science type jobs in software companies vs. non-software related industries). It would be interesting to know for someone who was job hunting in the field.</p>
<p>OP, regarding your question on how to apply, that is a perfect question to take to admissions at each college. But here is another tip… I did not actually MINOR in Computer Science, as my college did not allow it (University of Michigan, and my degree is from the Ross School of Business within U of M). What they did allow was for me to take classes in other schools at the University (Computer Science was in Literature, Science, and Arts at that time). In fact, at Michigan all undergrad business majors spend two years in some other school, then start business courses in their Junior year. So there are two years when you can take a lot of other stuff, and get in some computer science courses then. I was also able to take about 1 course a semester the last couple of years (jr. & sr. year) that were not in the School of Business. So I took lots of computer classes, and just listed in the education section of my resume, “Bachelor of Business Administration, Marketing Major. Also took X computer science courses.” And then in my cover letter for job applications, I just said that I was interested in both areas. Worked for me… But if you ask the various colleges, you may be able to find a way to have a formal minor in c/s (or business if you want to major in c/s and minor in business).</p>
<p>There’s plenty of software engineering work outside of San Francisco and Redmond. Back in the 1980s and 1990s, you had Digital Equipment Corporation, Wang Laboratories, Prime Computer, Data General, Sun Microsystems and many other computer companies in the Boston area. This was back in the day when these computer companies all developed their own hardware architectures so that software that ran on one manufacturer’s computers didn’t run on others unless they were ported. So you had all of these companies that built their own operating systems, compliers and other middleware in the Boston out to Route 495 Belt.</p>
<p>EMC is also located in the Greater Boston Area and they do quite a bit of software development. Today, with the ability to work remotely, it may not even matter where you want to live as long as you have phone and broadband service.</p>
<p>Those more interested in theory, performance, hardware aspects of computer science may do better in software engineering jobs. Those that are more interested in people and business aspects may do better in IS.</p>
<p>Most companies have IT (IS, or whatever) department. Retailers, manufacturing, insurance, hospitals, government…They use packages and do lots of new development. However, it is not easy to find a job, especially in depressed areas like OH or MI, that have been down for few decades. All jobs are very interesting, more like entertainment. You work with lots of different people within and outside of your organization (suppliers, customers). All businesses are connected via various software that also need to be maintained with some portions that have to be newly developed.
The reason that it is not easy to fined a job is that lots of people decide not to retire or semi-retire by doing the same for the same place but in contractor capacity. Companies like the oldies like me, we have experience and know how to learn. If you can relocate anywhere, then it is much easier. Good luck!</p>
<p>In response to your question:</p>
<p>“Drexel has a combined business/engineering major but is it worth considering/going to? I’m looking more to top schools like RPI, NYU, BU, Cornell.” </p>
<p>As I mentioned earlier, since Drexel has rolling admissions, if you can get your application complete by the end of September, you may hear from Drexel by the end of October. You would have a school in your pocket (with a scholarship) early and you can then see if you can get into RPI, NYU, BU or Cornell.</p>
<p>Also, you mentioned “RPI (great engineering programs but no business programs).”</p>
<p>That would be incorrect - RPI does have the Lally School of Management and Technology, which does offer an undergraduate program:</p>
<p>[Undergraduate</a> Program — The Lally School of Management & Technology](<a href=“http://lallyschool.rpi.edu/public/academic-programs/undergraduate]Undergraduate”>http://lallyschool.rpi.edu/public/academic-programs/undergraduate)</p>
<p>Depending on how far south you are willing to go for ‘top schools’, Duke. They highly encourage study across ‘schools’ (ie engineering to business, or vise versa).</p>
<p>blueiguana’s post brings another point to mind. You mentioned a list of possible majors above, and b-i just mentioned engineering. Note that computer engineering (in a school of engineering within a college) is quite different than a computer science major. Computer engineering is likely to be a MUCH more rigorous course of study (you have all the requirements of an engineering degree). Of course, you would be learning things that would help you if you want to do things like design computer hardware. But if you are not looking for hard-core hardware development, I would think you will find a computer science major to be much easier sledding. Just have your eyes open if you choose an engineering path. B-i is right, though, that this particular combo (engineering - business) is a common one for colleges to encourage (although sometimes in 5 year programs).</p>
<p>Also, no one has said much about the offshoring of many, many programming jobs. I am currently working with a client that is offshoring like crazy (went from about 25% offshore for basic in house development and support to 70% offshore in one year). I am not saying it has been a pleasant experience, but the writing is on the wall – this will be more and more common in the coming years. I would not plan on a career as a programmer in the US if I were a college student today. I think there will still be jobs in IT/CS/whatever you want to call it management, jobs managing physical technical infrastructure, and for roles like systems analysts that interact closely with the business. And you can cut your programming teeth in the next 10 years. But I wouldn’t count on actually coding as a long term career in the US. There will be some, but far less than we have today…</p>
<p>^ You are correct, Dukes program is Computer Engineering. What caught my attention when looking at Duke’s engineering site was the following:</p>
<p>“Duke undergraduates participate in independent study, a semester abroad, and a degree program with a second major.”</p>
<p>I thought perhaps this would offer the OP flexibility to pursue some other things mentioned here. They do offer a 5th year degree, a Master of Engineering Management Program that “is an interdisciplinary professional program that integrates management, technology, and a practical internship to produce tomorrow’s technology leaders.”.</p>
<p>I would agree that engineering in any form is not for the faint of heart. The points you make are very valid.</p>
<p>Just to cover my hiney…I don’t have a student at, I did not attend, nor do I work for Duke. I’m not selling a thing. It was an honest suggestion :)</p>
<p>Some CS programs are in engineering schools. Some CS programs in universities with engineering program use the courses from the engineering department as CS requirements. There are CS programs that are as rigorous as engineering programs.</p>
<p>And CS programs that are a lot easier.</p>
<p>There are also EECS programs at our nation’s best engineering schools.</p>
<p>There is still a lot of software engineering work done in the US and I expect this to grow. If you are interested in this area, then look into CS degrees that are more oriented to software engineering and that have a substantial theory component.</p>