<p>Recruiters look for people who can actually program computers and build things. College degrees are becoming less and less important. See the following article for more information: <a href="http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/927675-computer-science-majors-your-degree-may-not-be-as-valuable-as-you-think/">http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/927675-computer-science-majors-your-degree-may-not-be-as-valuable-as-you-think/</a></p>
<p>I would not put 100% stock in that. It really SHOULD read that a CS degree is not needed. Many companies still tie degrees to more senior-level positions. As for making very good money, that is a different subject. Folks with experience and certifications can command high hourly rates BUT you have to be more of a “hired gun” as a W-2 or 1099 employee. Of course, the risk is that the employer can terminate your contract anytime.</p>
<p>Beyond the headline is the fact that those who get into software development without a bachelor’s degree in CS are the ones with a high level of ability and motivation to self-educate themselves in the needed CS concepts and skills. Such ability and motivation is relatively rare – most high school or college dropouts (or those with bachelor’s degrees in unrelated subjects) do not successfully get into software development. The few (sometimes well known) who do so are exceptional in terms of their ability and motivation.</p>
<p>Back in the early 80’s when I started working as a programmer, there were lots of people without college degrees who were programmers. I rarely see that now.</p>
<p>You have not worked at the right place. In the early days of Facebook, some hackers were hacking Facebook and were invited out to interview. Some ended up working there, got rich and retired. I would assume there are more out there.</p>
<p>As far as I know, the last time I worked with a programmer who didn’t have a college degree was at Sun circa 1997. </p>
<p>One can always come up with an anecdote about people getting jobs without degrees. At big companies like Google and Facebook there are bound to be some programmers without degrees, but I wonder what the percentage is? I’d suspect it’s pretty small. </p>
<p>I can see someone without a degree getting hired at a small start-up, though.</p>
<p>Some of the best programmers are in the gaming industry and many (I’d say most in my experience) do not have degrees. Some have coursework, but colleges are a bit ponderous in terms of innovation and responding to industry trends. Colleges have actually tried to jump into the gaming business by creating game design programs, but the movers and shakers in the business largely do not have CS degrees.</p>
<p>Big businesses tend to hire people with degrees because they institutionally have no way to measure the ability of someone who has skills.</p>
<p>@GLOBALTRAVELER - Correct. Degrees are often still tied to more senior level positions, particularly management. Even the most well paid programmers I know (of the ones without a degree) still acknowledge the benefit of having a degree. Mastering programming skills will certainly land you a high paying job with or without a degree, but the fact remains that many OTHER types of jobs will be available to those with degrees - those master programmers without degrees don’t have many options as far as other jobs go.</p>
<p>@simba9 - I believe you have had that experience, but I have had quite the opposite. 21 out of 22 of my close high school friends who became software developers (each with salaries of over $110+ by their mid-twenties) do not have a college degree, and a handful have never even graduated high school. The one who does have a degree has a degree in an unrelated subject. In fact, in my experience, those with degrees are the exception, rather than the rule. I don’t think I’ve ever met a successful programmer under the age of 30 who did have a college degree, in fact. The programmers who do, I’ve noticed, are much less successful than the ones who don’t. My theory is that the initiative to self-learn is what separates programmers who can stay up to date with the times and those who fall behind with obsolete knowledge, and those with that initiative have never needed to have their hands held via a classroom setting.</p>
<p>Maybe it’s a generational thing. Interesting point of view. Thanks for sharing</p>
<p>Some of the founders for Occulus the gaming virtual reality company that was bought out by Facebook end though one did work at USC.
While the numbers of those without CS or engineering degrees are small but not unheard of. Come to think about it Bill Gates and Zuckerberg didn’t have degree either. They are both dropouts.</p>
<p>My post seems incomplete, not sure what happened. But what I meant to write was that cofounder of Occulus did not have a CS degree even though they did work at USC gaming lab.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Probably because CS was a newer field then, so there were fewer people with bachelor’s degrees in CS, so there were more opportunities for career-changers (with no degree, or degree in an unrelated major) to move into computer software.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Remember that the no-CS-degree people working in computer software have presumably self-educated the needed CS topics. Self-education typically requires a high level of interest, ability, and motivation, compared to learning in a more structured classroom and lab environment in college. People with that high level of interest, ability, and motivation to self-educate the base level of CS topics are much less common than those who can be educated in CS at college.</p>
<p>Of course, having a long career does mean continuing self-education.</p>
<p>DrGoogle wrote:
While the numbers of those without CS or engineering degrees are small but not unheard of. Come to think about it Bill Gates and Zuckerberg didn’t have degree either. They are both dropouts.</p>
<p>These people did go to college but didn’t graduate because other opportunities came up. My guess is that they were invested in CS topics, programming, self study, etc. before they decided to go to college and if their other projects didn’t explode into such a lucrative venture they may have graduated.</p>
<p>If a person is motivated to put in the work they can have a career without a CS degree.</p>
<p>I just don’t know how productive it is to tell people that Zuckerberg didn’t go to college because some people might take that the wrong way and forget about self-study, challenging yourself, creating new things, thinking differently, etc. that it takes to be successful.</p>
<p>killaken, so my post doesn’t dispute your post. What makes you think the people who don’t have degrees in CS and working as the OP are not interest in CS topics, programming and self-study. That was exactly my point. You mean to tell me the 31 people that OP know actually didn’t do any problem and self-study. OP stated they didn’t’ need a degree and that does NOT mean they were not interested in the subject.
Were are talking about NOT having a degree and that is NOT the same as NOT interested in the subject or are NOT self learner. Reread post #8.</p>
<p>Please calm down. I’m merely saying that hard work is what is important. I don’t want students to forget that hard work is what made these people successful not dropping out of school. </p>
<p>The main idea of my previous post was that people become successful because they are self-starters, -learners and if you are a person who is motivated to succeed then you probably will whether they go to college or not.</p>
<hr>
<p>“If a person is motivated to put in the work they can have a career without a CS degree.”</p>
<p>I feel that people who are interested in CS topics, programming, self study, etc. can be very successful without a college degree. I don’t know what you are arguing about.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Um what. Did no one else catch that? You have not only 22 close friends from high school, but they’re also all self taught programmers? If this is true, there’s obviously slightly special circumstances in play. lol.</p>
<p>I think its a mixed bag, but it doesn’t make the degree, or more importantly the classes, unimportant. It really depends on what you’re doing in CS. Game development is a good example with lots of self taught programmers, and with the market being relatively hard to get into even with the degree when compared to other CS jobs, I think it makes it an even better case.</p>
<p>However, for software development and design for companies, the degree makes it a lot easier to get your foot in the door in many places, gives you more flexibility, and there are some key college courses I am aware of that really do make a difference.</p>
<p>I think we’ve been distracted from the title here. I think the title is correct with one revision. “Degrees are not necessary to land a high paying CS job” would be my version. I don’t think anything has changed from the past for the industry as a whole/average. But it’s not an all or nothing thing like people in the thread seem to be arguing.</p>
<p>I think it’s your last paragraph of post #12. I don’t think I wrote that the fact that they are dropouts is what makes these billionaires successful. I think I was emphasizing the fact that it didn’t hurt them without a degree. Of course hard work is without saying, particularly for people without degrees. Even Google changed it’s hiring strategy to include people without degrees to a certain extent.</p>
<p>You can generalize this logic by arguing that a degree itself is a useless piece of paper that says nothing about your knowledge or skills. You may have been a computer scientist before, or maybe you are, in another dimension. Since the development of quantum theory we may all be better citizens and better programmers or better in anything. </p>