conflicted and confused

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cornell University
1

<p>interestingly, after spending way too much money visiting colleges, i think i might be more confused than i previously imagined. the 1 month after acceptances were sent out, I thought i would have more than enough time to make a decision...and i have something like four days left and i still lack the conviction to choose a college.</p>

<p>so i have narrowed down my choices to two schools: Chicago and Cornell
I will be a Biology major at both, but each school only seems to satisfy only a part my academic desires.</p>

<p>no, I'm not a prestige whore (for the lack of a better word), and yes I have always understood "Ivy" as being a sports league, so as I see it, the academic reputation of Cornell and Chicago seems to be comparable. I am also pretty set on going to grad school, so the prestige each school has in the mainstream is not really a top concern of mine. if i am wrong feel free to correct my ignorance. anyway, i also feel the same way about the strength of the biology programs of both; however, the family friends I talked to from each school aren't bio majors, so it would be nice if someone could comment on the relative strengths of their programs. as for the performance of the respective student bodies in grad school admissions, I'd imagine that the difference isnt too significant to sway my decision one way to another. I also recognize that being a potential premed is going to be competitive and difficult no matter where I go; thus I don't think i want to reopen the "fun comes to die" or the "omfg cornell is so competitive" debate...at least on this thread.</p>

<p>with that said, Chicago's edge in economics makes it pretty enticing (it's an area of study that's in the back of my mind, but i am considering it should bio not pan out as intended). Engineering is something I am also interested in, ergo the attachment to cornell. the 5 year masters they offer is admittedly very attractive.</p>

<p>I visited both schools and while I really liked the intellectual nature of the students at chicago, I was able to meet some pretty similar people at cornell as well; thus, I really have no preference in this regard.</p>

<p>so what worries me most about cornell is the sheer number of people at many of the classes. I visited a few, and it really felt like an east coast version of ucla or berkeley (not that i have anything against this, but it's just that for the price of a education at cornell, i was expecting slightly more). Research opportunities outside the university itself is another of my concerns. Chicago has Fermilab and Argonne, and i dont think cornell has anything quite like those.</p>

<p>as for cost, I think I'll graduate from chicago with 24k more debt that i would at cornell. i still feel i can live with the difference in price. i guess what i really would like to know is if 1) how seriously do students treat academics 2) chicago seems to be superior in many departments, is the same true about cornell? 3) how is cornell's econ department, and how well do grads generally do when looking of jobs in the financial sector (an option i'd like if bio doesnt pan out)</p>

<p>and if anyone had to pick between cornell and chicago, how did you choose and why?</p>

2

<p>Honestly, I don't think there are very many differences in the undergraduate academics at either school, especially for biology. Cornell may offer more research opportunities, simply because it is a more undergraduate oriented university. And for biology, the class sizes are largely a function of what you study -- evolutionary behavior classes are pretty small, other departments may not be. Chicago economics is going to be a notch above Cornell in most fields, but for undergraduate it doesn't really matter especially if you are just interested in finance/consulting jobs.</p>

<p>I'm not certain how much research opportunities outside of the University should play a role in your decision. How many undergrads even work at Fermi? But Cornell offers a lot too -- Arecibo, Shoals Marine Lab, and tons of different research labs across the State of New York for biology and natural resources.</p>

<p>But I just found this comment interesting:</p>

<p>
[quote]
I visited both schools and while I really liked the intellectual nature of the students at Chicago, I was able to meet some pretty similar people at Cornell as well; thus, I really have no preference in this regard.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>There was a thread a week ago by a student who visited both schools and was convinced that everybody at Cornell was an anti-intellectual meathead. We tried to convince him otherwise, suggesting that there are probably just as many intellectual types at Cornell as at Chicago, it's just that there are an additional 8,000 students at Cornell who might be more interested in hotel management or landscaping than Hegel and Thomas Hobbes. But he wasn't buying it. The funny thing was that when he was at Cornell he spent his time at the fraternity parties. Go figure.</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/cornell-university/496122-easiest-major-cornell-2.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/cornell-university/496122-easiest-major-cornell-2.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>As you pointed out, though, there is going to be a difference in the student culture at each school. I have a bunch of friends from Cornell who are now getting their PhDs from Chicago. I think they were happy that they had a more social environment for undergrad, but that's not for everyone. I would choose based on that. 24k less in debt doesn't too bad either.</p>

<p>And by graduate admissions do you mean Med School or Grad School? Either way it doesn't matter. It's more what you do with your time as an undergraduate and the resources offered to you and you seek out than where you go to school. I know kids from Chicago who are getting their PhD in biology at MIT. (And I know kids from Cornell who are getting their PhD in biology at JHU, Penn, Princeton, Cornell-Weill, and Chicago. Of course I know more people from Cornell because I went to Cornell.) You can do wonderfully at either school.</p>

<p>As for as how well different departments are regarded, Cornell does better in the applied fields, Chicago does better in the theory. Humanities are the same. Social sciences are better at Chicago. Engineering is better at Cornell. Natural and life sciences are the same. And Cornell obviously has all of its niche undergraduate majors going for it.</p>

3

<p>I'll comment directly on the intellectual atmosphere at Cornell. I've found a good portion of the students here to be very hard working. I've also found a good portion to be incredibly lazy and whose sole concern is where to get drunk first. Beofre one of my finals (at 11 in the morning) a kid behind remarked to his friend: "I don't think I'm going to do well. I'm still kind of drunk from a huge party last night." This attitude isn't exactly hard to find at Cornell.</p>

<p>As far as simply a desire for intellectual stimulation, I've found that to be extremely lacking. I didn't hear one intellectual conversation outside of class my entire time at Cornell. Cornellians can be very driven and hard working, but it's usually in a practical realm.</p>

<p>If you're looking for a philosophy convo at 2 in the morning, go to Chicago. If you're looking for nerdier types, go to Chicago. If you love academia and everything involved with it, go to Chicago.</p>

4

<p>i'm almost done with my freshman year here at cornell and i just had my first intellectual discussion outside of class a few days ago. Although I dont know if a hostile political clash between a radical liberal and a republican really counts. Actually it doesnt. So...thats what I have to offer about intellectualism at cornell.</p>

5

<p>Most of my Cornell friends were ridiculously smart and they would amaze me with how much they knew. Some of the coolest stuff I've learned was from random conversations at the dorm at 2 AM. </p>

<p>But we're more concerned with getting our work done than debating small topics like "A revival of Taylorism in rural China. Friend or foe?" Really, none of my friends called each other to meet at CTB at 2 am to have intellectual conversations, we'd either talk about the last hockey game or the Yankees (not that I know an ounce about them). Cornell students are really down to earth and don't feel the need to take on a "I art higher than thou" topic to have a good conversation.</p>

6

<p>
[quote]
Before one of my finals (at 11 in the morning) a kid behind remarked to his friend: "I don't think I'm going to do well. I'm still kind of drunk from a huge party last night." This attitude isn't exactly hard to find at Cornell.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't think this attitude is found any more at Cornell than other top schools. At any school there is going to be a pretty large population of students who come drunk to class or who smoke up before a final that they know they aren't going to do well on. It's hard to explain if you are not one of those students, but it happens. At Princeton apparently one of the biggest nights of the week to go out on is Tuesday night.</p>

<p>The same type of attitudes will be found at Dartmouth, Georgetown, Wesleyan, Penn, Stanford, etc. Chicago maybe less so, but it's not like this type of activity doesn't happen at Chicago either .And if my professor's opinions were worth anything, those that taught at a school other than Cornell before teaching at Cornell felt that Cornell students were driven and more hard working than other places -- Stanford for one.</p>

<p>As for whether or not Cornell has an intellectual atmosphere, I will wholeheartedly agree that Cornell is more pragmatic than intellectual and most students won't just delve right into an intellectual conversation. They are pretty laid back. And there is a certain percentage of students who could care less about intellectual conversations at all. But that doesn't mean that there still aren't 4-5,000 students at Cornell who could hold their own intellectual weight. Hell, 10% of each year's graduating class go on for a PhD.</p>

<p>But I'm <em>shocked</em> by the fact that you haven't had "one intellectual conversation outside of class my entire time at Cornell". My freshman year in the dorms was spent with a lot of random 2AM conversations about everything -- popular music and culture, Walmart and suburbia, race relations, family backgrounds, etc. On my Habitat for Humanity trip sophomore year, our car ride down to North Carolina featured seven hours of lively debate and discussion. And after the Kerry-Bush election of 2004 we stayed up until 5AM in an extremely heated discourse about the nature of religion in American politics. (Some of my roommates felt that evangelical Christians lost Kerry the election, other didn't.) Hell, even when I was thinking of rushing a fraternity I think one of the brothers asked me about what types of books I recently read.</p>

<p>If you look for it, it will be there. Perhaps you will get placed in a really crap dorm situation your freshman year. That's life. And if you are looking for it in AEM or some of the engineering disciplines, you are barking up the wrong tree. But that doesn't mean you can't join one of the thousands of different clubs on campus that offer a lot of intellectual stimulation -- all of the different campus publications, from literary to political, etc. I was very active in the SAFC and Cornell Outdoor Education, while writing for Kitsch and the Sun, and partying with the Co-Ops, the Public Journal, and Glee Club crew, and was never at a lack for intellectual stimulation. And, it's been my understanding that this type of activity has only improved at Cornell in recent years with the adoption of the residential houses on West.</p>

<p>But then again, it's been three years since I graduated from Cornell, so maybe it has changed a lot. But I doubt it.</p>