<br>
<br>
<p>They are plenty smart. They do read the transcripts.</p>
<p>It’s in their best interests to.</p>
<p>I offer the following comments as one who writes many letters of recommendations and one who evaluates many letters of recommendations for medical school applicants.</p>
<p>The checked “top 1%” boxes are generally taken with a grain of salt. Some referees are overly generous with this classification-with 20% of their references being so checked, while other referees use this classification more accurately. What is more useful is the quality of the letter itself. Does it reinforce the general impression from the rest of the application? Does it reveal new aspects of the applicant not readily seen in other areas of the application? In general, is this letter specific for this specific student or is it a general “great student” letter with few specifics and thus little impact?
Lastly, letters of reference are only one portion of a complete application.</p>
<p>
If the student does not check the box, he or she can walk into the college admissions office and demand, as a matter of right, to see the recommendations. The college in that case must give the recommendations to the student. </p>
<p>If the student does check the box, the college can say “No” to any such demand. However, the college can also say “Yes”, but the student cannot force the “Yes.”</p>
<p>Thanks, Chedva, for clearly answering my question.</p>
<p>Isn’t the rating supposed to over the course of the teacher’s carreer? Sorry but I have to say that top 10% over the teacher’s entire creer is still a fabulous feather in the student’s cap. Personally I would be flabbergasted if a student questioned me as to why I ranked them as I had. I wouldn’t allow my shock to reflect on the student’s rec but it would floor me and leave me with a bad taste re the studen’t lack of grace. Remind your friend that this teacher, depending upon her/his years of experience has perhaps had thousands of students grace their room and to be in the top 6 to10% is a good thing.</p>
<p>poseur–I disagree with your boyfriend’s assessment of the grading scale, weighted grades, and the characterization of AP’s as “worthless.” </p>
<p>AP courses indicate rigor. An 89.5% in an AP course may very well be equivalent to your boyfriend’s 99.5 in a regular course. I understand Latin may be more relevant to his career goals than say, AP US History, but the sense I am getting is he feels he should be ranked higher in his class because he has a 4.0 average and OMG he took LATIN. It’s not exactly rocket science.</p>
<p>^^ The point is that just because a class has “AP” in its name, it does not mean that it is more rigorous than a tough non-AP class. Giving an extra GPA boost to the “AP” classes but not the regular classes also has the unintended consequence of creating a disincentive for taking additional non-AP classes. For example, if student ‘X’ takes 4 AP and 1 regular class, and student ‘Y’ takes the same 5 classes as student X but in addition takes an additional class (e.g, Latin) during elective time, and if both X and Y get straight “A” grades in all their classes, it will be student X who has a higher GPA and class rank than student Y. This is actually a common scenario among the top students in many schools.</p>
<p>^ The latter situation that you described is actually not the case in my school, as everyone takes the same number of courses per year, but it is a very blatant injustice in some systems, IMO, and it (as well as similar cases) can be further explored in this thread: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/559068-gpa-ranking-system-fallacies.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/559068-gpa-ranking-system-fallacies.html</a>.</p>
<p>
That’s not the point at all. The point is that some classes that are labeled “AP,” like vicariousparent said, are not necessarily more rigorous. In addition, we have classes labeled “GT” (basically Honors) which are weighted the same as APs, and some of them (like Art II GT, which I took because I love art – and I didn’t even know that non-core classes were weighted at the time anyways – so don’t think that I’m saying that Art isn’t a WORTHWHILE CLASS) are by any standards less rigorous than classes like LATIN FOUR, which is the AP level course (but isn’t AP because the teacher didn’t want to do Vergil.) Holy run-on sentence Batman. </p>
<p>I dunno what I would consider fair, though. I don’t want to say, you know, “Art II GT shouldn’t be weighted and Latin should,” because as an artist myself I understand that taking an advanced Art class is just as much work, albeit work in a different vein, as an academically-demanding class. Really, my only problem with my school’s system right now is that Latin is unweighted… and I suppose Band should be, too, starting at the second or third year, ‘cause staying in Band requires dedication and lotsss of hard work. So uhhh, if I were in charge of that, that’s what I’d change (in addition to making grades percentage-based instead of 89.5%+ = 4.0.) I mean, I know, no system is perfect. I’m just sayin’ what I think would be more fair.</p>
<p>Again, I offer my comments as one who writes numerous letters of recommendation and one who evaluates many on admission committees.</p>
<p>Admission committees can read student transcripts. We are well aware of the varying level of difficulty of AP and honor classes. Let’s face it, we see a very large number of applications! At a certain point, there is an incredible similarity or at least equivalency of applicants. The student’s essays and their letters of recommendations augment and highlight the unique aspects of the applicant. Teachers rank students not on just their grades or their course load. We rank students using intangibles not apparent in the transcript AND we are comparing students against all students we have ever taught (be that 1 year or 40 years)-which is why the ratings of senior teachers often have more weight! They are calibrated over a large number of students!</p>
<p>Poseur–yes, I was surprised that Latin 4 wasn’t the AP level, but thought possibly at your school they take 4 years to do 3, or something. That’s too bad. </p>
<p>To illustrate another injustice: At our HS, after AP Computer Science, the kids can take “Advanced Topics in Computer Science” which is also weighted, as being college-level, which it probably is. However, it is no more difficult for the kids who get to that level than Band IV is for competent senior band members. But Band IV isn’t weighted. In fact, there is no “Band IV”–it’s just all band because there is no way to differentiate between mediocre musicians who have been taking band for 4 years and great ones. That’s why there are individual Solo competitions–you can shine there, but it doesn’t help your GPA any.</p>
<p>So bottom line, you should take what you love and not worry about the GPA–it will even out in the end.</p>
<p>i think if hes as strong a student as you say he is, being in the “top 10%” as opposed to “top 5%” or whatever wouldnt really make a difference. there would be so many other aspects for him to stand out in</p>
<p>A university sees the application as a whole. Grades, recos, ECs, essay (most importantly): it all comes together. A good application is one that is consistent: good grades supported by good recos supported by good ECs supported by good essays.</p>
<p>thus, the fact that your bf got top 5% or top 10% rather top 1% is irrelevant. The fact is that these credentials are being tossed about by teachers like confetti (this is broad generalisation but PLEASE do not attack me. Its true.). Uni admissions people wont give that those little tickboxes the attention that will make or break your application. Only grades, essays and your written recos might do that.</p>
<p>On a lighter note, a friend of mine went and questioned a teacher rather aggresively about a reco he got. The teacher smiled, took the reco back, and tore it into half. He then suggested him to look for a new teacher to write one.</p>
<p>Thank you abhimanuk for your helpful insights.</p>
<p>“On a lighter note, a friend of mine went and questioned a teacher rather aggresively about a reco he got. The teacher smiled, took the reco back, and tore it into half. He then suggested him to look for a new teacher to write one.”</p>
<p>That’s what I’d do, too, if a student questioned my opinion about them, not a factual error.</p>
<p>BRING A LAWSUIT. TEACHERS NEED TO BE SUED OFTEN. That is the ONLY way to bring about change in our educational system. LAWSUITS. We should INUNDATE schools with suits for malpractice, harassment, incompetence, and sometimes vicious slander.</p>
<p>I can count on ONE hand the number of teachers I have met whom I liked, respected and were honestly good at their profession and helpful to my children.</p>
<p>The others were pathetic, mediocre and sometimes downright harmful. SUE!</p>
<p>Did you ever for one second consider homeschooling your children?</p>
<p>I want to reinforce what ParAlum has written. As someone who writes and reads numerous recommendation letters, I want to underscore the point that the boxes we have to check on some forms can get well nigh meaningless. Top 1%? Top 5%? Best in years? exceptional? excellent? How does one make such judgments? The best student I have one year may or may not be among the top 5% of all students I’ve ever taught. </p>
<p>But the letters are so much more important. When I read a recommendation of a few sentences, “A great student, will do well, deserves honor and recognition” I am not helped. But when the recommender is specific, can give concrete examples about work done, contributions made, etc., the letter goes a lot farther. It’s more important what the recommender said about the student than the numbers checked.</p>
<p>I wonder how many teachers are ever taught or coached how to write recommendation letters? I’ve read enough written by my peers to know that they won’t help students get into grad programs or get jobs afterwards. </p>
<p>And what do your teachers ask you to give them? My D, a HS senior, has a teacher who asked for an unofficial transcript, a letter from the student about the class(es) they’d had with him, and what the HS calls a “brag sheet” in order to write a recommendation for her. That sounds like a lot of work for the student; but it gives me confidence that this teacher will write my D a recommendation that reflects who she is and what she is capable of.</p>