<p>This is so basic as to be embarrassing! :) But I am having real trouble sorting it out, so I figured I would take the plunge and expose my massive ignorance, hoping one or more of you can help.</p>
<p>Here are my questions:</p>
<p>My kid's grandfather set up a 529 account for her and has been saving for her college education. Based on his financial advisor's advice, grandpa set the account up in his own name FBO/my kid. </p>
<p>Gramps tells me that his financial advisor said that this was the best way to set it up so that it won't count against my kid's ability to get more financial aid. Now, I know that based on the Deficit Reduction Act of 2005, this money will not be treated as a student asset under the FAFSA. </p>
<p>However, won't we <em>have</em> to claim it somewhere, perhaps on individual institution's financial aid forms? (The CSS?)</p>
<p>In addition, I attended a seminar about college financial aid and the officer in charge suggested that because having money in a 529 <em>will</em> in the end, have an often significant impact on a student's ability to get other financial aid, grandparents and others who hold 529 plans in benefit of their grandchildren hold onto the money (and continue to contribute to the fund) until the kid is OUT of college, and THEN give the $$$ to the grandchild to help him or her pay off college loans. Is this a viable option?</p>
<p>I hope I have been clear about what I am asking, but fear I have not. Thanks in any case for any assistance anyone can offer me. This is all very new to us. </p>
<p>PP</p>
<p>The CSS/Profile does ask a question something like: Is the student the beneficiary of a 529 plan? In your situation, I would think you would have to answer yes.</p>
<p>I may be wrong, but I don't think you are allowed to use 529funds to pay off college loans....does anyone know this for sure?</p>
<p>Until now I would have said it doesn't count at all; it is grandpa's asset and he can decide to do what he wants with it; can spend it on another grandkid's college w/o tax consequences so don't even put it on FAFSA. Grandpa should just transfer $ from 529 to college. But there are really recent changes in 2007 that take effect in 2009 that you should look at. Nice grandpa!!!</p>
<p>Muffy, how can we find out what those changes are? I was actually told by a college financial aid officer that the person (gramps, in this case) who holds the 529 FBO my daughter <em>can</em> hold onto it for as long as he wants and give it to her when she finishes college. This is so confusing ..... :)</p>
<p>Well, the college isn't going to wait until she finishes school for payment.......</p>
<p>sueinphilly (I heart Philly, by the way, though that has nothing whatsoever to do with this discussion!:)), you are so right: colleges won't wait for payment!!
My husband and I are in the thick of filling out the FAFSA and CSS and are just confused as to how to handle the 529 money to best advantage for us, financially, and for my kid's ability to get the maximum amount of financial aid.
I just read online that (and I quote here) "Grandparent-owned 529 accounts are not counted in determining financial aid eligibility."<br>
However, at the financial aid seminar that I attended (held by the university for which I work, for employees who have kids applying to college for fall 2008), we were told that some colleges and universities have individual forms that ask questions such as "Will your student be getting money from any other source, such as grandparents, etc.?" It was at that point that a financial aid officer said that some grandparents, worried about their 529 accounts affecting their grandkids' ability to get financial aid, have decided to hold onto the money and give the money to their grands AFTER college, to help the student pay back his or her loans. The FA officer said that some families decide to do it this way, because it will then have less impact on the student's ability to get aid.</p>
<p>I'm sorry, I'm inept at copying and pasting. Look in the thread "Invested money in kids name-big mistake" on this forum and look at vballmom's posting of the new law there.</p>
<p>FinAid</a> | Saving for College | Section 529 College Savings Plan Loophole</p>
<p>not sure if this is still true: So if the student goes to a fafsa only school, the 529 isn't counted as assets, but with CSS profile it is. Of course that doesn't answer the question about holding the $$ until the student graduates. </p>
<p>Assets of Third Party Account Owner</p>
<p>Only section 529 college savings plans that are owned by the parent or student are reported as assets on the FAFSA. They are reported as assets of the account owner, and not the beneficiary, because the account owner has the power to change the beneficiary. If the section 529 college savings plan is owned by a third party (say, a grandparent), it is not reported on the FAFSA because only assets owned by the student and parents are reported on the FAFSA.</p>
<p>This loophole applies only to the FAFSA. The CSS Profile asks the family to list all 529 college savings plans that name the student as a beneficiary, so plans owned by a grandparent but with the student named as a beneficiary would have to be reported.</p>
<p>Okay, cutting and pasting from other thread: this is what should be checked out more closely in regard to grandparent assets. Note the change in treatment of student-owned 529 forms, which were not favorably treated prior to 2006, then, by mistake, not counted at all...then for 2009, treated similarly to parent assets. I want to get a copy of the whole act and I think I got to Congressional website and got lost.</p>
<p>The new law: </p>
<p>(September 8, 2007) - Both the House and Senate yesterday voted to pass the College Cost Reduction and Access Act (H.R. 2669). The White House has signaled the intent of the President to sign the bill into law.</p>
<p>The major provisions of the bill would increase the maximum Pell Grant from $4,310 today to $5,400 by 2012, cut the interest rate on subsidized Stafford Loans in half from 6.8% to 3.4% over five years, and reduce government payments to banks and agencies making student loans.</p>
<p>Under the bill, dependent students with self-owned 529 accounts and Coverdell ESAs will no longer be able to exclude those assets in the determination of financial need, effective with the 2009/2010 school year. Instead they will be treated as parent assets, the same as parent-owned 529s and ESAs.</p>
<p>The bill also clarifies that tax-free distributions from a 529 plan, from a non-529 state prepaid tuition plan (i.e. Massachusetts U.Plan), or from a Coverdell ESA are not reportable as income or support on the federal financial aid application.</p>
<p><<under the="" bill,="" dependent="" students="" with="" self-owned="" 529="" accounts="" and="" coverdell="" esas="" will="" no="" longer="" be="" able="" to="" exclude="" those="" assets="" in="" determination="" of="" financial="" need,="" effective="" 2009="" 2010="" school="" year.="" instead="" they="" treated="" as="" parent="" assets,="" same="" parent-owned="" 529s="" esas.="">></under></p>
<p>So what does that mean that for the 2008-2009 school year"
529s in the students name are excluded???</p>
<p>This still doesn't clarify how 529's in the grandparents name are recorded (if they are)</p>
<p>For 2008-2009 529s belonging to student are excluded. It's a loophole/mistake kind of thing that makes no sense. Because the rules seem to be in flux, it would be important to get the exact current rules on 529s for grandparents.</p>
<p>SueinPhilly, is correct.
529 in grandparents name are NOT counted in fafsa! Do Not list grandparents 529 in your FAFSA!</p>
<p>Why? Because they can change the beneficiary to themselves if they wanted to and, they are the ones who benefit from the tax provisions. Have you actually seen the papers that say your D is beneficiary and irrevocable?</p>
<p>Read the terms of the 529.</p>
<p>So if I put X into the 529 (that I already have) and then make my son the owner, I can 'protect' those assets'.</p>
<p>Can I then change the owner back to myself for the next year?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.studentaid.ed.gov/students/attachments/siteresources/20082009FinalFAFSA(en)Atta.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.studentaid.ed.gov/students/attachments/siteresources/20082009FinalFAFSA(en)Atta.pdf</a></p>
<p>I hate government speak! the documentation on my 529 plan says the "assets are not generally considered the students"
Can I make my brother the owner?</p>
<p>Note: Students who must report parental information on this form should report all qualified educational benefits or education savings accounts owned by the parents—including Coverdell savings accounts, 529 college savings plans, and the refund value of 529 prepaid tuition plans—in question 88. If the account is owned by a student who must report parental information, the value of the account is not to be reported. If the account is owned by a student (or the student’s spouse) who is not reporting parental information, the value is to be reported as an investment in question 44.</p>
<p>Try to think that the system is trying to be reasonable and fair. FAFSA assessment of parents assets is only about 6% vs 35% (?) for students. Having $10,000 in a 529 will be assessed for $600 for EFC. Consider yourself fortunate that you even have a 529 and hopefully a substantial amount to fund college.</p>
<p>sueinphilly-what you're suggesting sounds like it works for 2008; make son the owner of 529 and it won't be reported for FAFSA purposes. And then if there is $ left over in 2009 it will be treated the same whether you or he own it. I don't know what income tax consequences are of changing the owner though so you should figure out if there are any. And I don't know what CSS/Profile counts anything as. I have been trying to find an authoritative source so I can figure out what to do over the next few years...I have the Princeton Review Paying for College Without Going Broke 2008 edition, which says to refer to their website for current updates, but the link doesn't work...</p>
<p>If you trust your brother you could make him the owner, he'd be in the grandparent owning account category then. New question - what if brother is applying for financial aid for his own kids - is the account he owns for benefit of your kid going to raise his assets for FAFSA or CSS/Profile?</p>
<p>Maybe I can offer some of my own research with the 529 accounts. First, fafsa and css calculations are very different! Private schools require both but don't view them the same. With a private school, fafsa calculations are used for student loans and work study only. The bulk of financial aid from private colleges comes from grants and scholarships which use the css profile. The private colleges can do whatever they please with the calculations for their own money. The 529 owned by a grandparent may or may not be taken into consideration by a private college. Please talk to the college directly! I have spoken with many and they are all very different. Some view them as the students assets when doing their calculations, some don't count them at all. Money taken out of a 529 must be used for education expenses, NOT LOANS! The expenses must incur in the year that the money was taken out of the acct. So you can't have the student borrow 40K in loans over 4 years and then ask grandpa to pay back the money out of a 529 at graduation. Now if grandpa has his own savings acct/CD etc, he could at that point. Pay the studen'ts loans from grandpa taken ouf of a regular acct, not a 529. Technically, if the student took a 10k subsidized loan on year one and paid tuition with that grandpa could take out 10k out of the 529 and put it somewhere. Cd, other acct, whatever and let it earn interest. I'm just not sure how much benefit there would be with that.
For people who want to minimize the impact of the money being given by a relative wait until the FA forms are completed junior year in college for the student to use it. That is supposing you have enough money to pay tuition before then and the total tuition senior year is the same or less than the amt in grandpas 529 account.
For people who have mentioned switching ownership of accounts or opening accounts in the name of an uncle etc, be careful. THAT PERSON OWNS THAT ACCOUNT! If the uncle gets married and his wife leaves him, half of that money is hers in a community property state. If grandpa hits someone and kills them while driving and is sued, that's grandpa's money! I think people need to use their own judgement on trying to hide assets. When you do the calculations on how much the colleges view savings and what percent is figured into the EFC it may not be worth the risk and effort to try such things. There is a good site called savingforcollege.com that has a lot of info on 529 accounts. Just be sure you are reading current info when you look online. The rules on these things change all the time and most important talk to a private college directly. They are the ones who make the rules for their own money. In the big picture the bulk of money given in FA from a private school is the school's and the fafsa calculations have very litle to do with it.</p>
<p>brother is single gay man living in Manhattan. No kids. No car. No wife.
He is totally trustworthy. </p>
<p>I already have a 529. Just opened this year. I put 12K in at beginning of year and just withdrew 10K (yes my out of pocket for tuition, room, board and books was over 10K). So this is a totally qualified withdrawl. I am looking at three more years of fafsa (son is currently a freshman at a FAFSA only Private school)</p>
<p>From what I can tell, I can still get my 12K income tax deduction from my STATE (PA) taxes for contributions I make whether I own the account or not.</p>
<p>I can't see ANY reason to not make this change going forward into 2008. I fully expected to put 12K back into plan right after the new year. If I do that and transfer ownership to my brother, I can then exclude the $$ in that account from FAFSA. Am I missing something?? that seems too good to be true!</p>
<p>since I am a single parent, my income protection is less than HALF as a 2 parent family with same income, this could help neutralize the difference</p>
<p>fwiw, I just ran some numbers on the Fafsa calculator. A 20K difference in my assets reduces my EFC by 1128.</p>
<p>Now I realize that having a lower EFC doesn't mean that difference will not come out of my pocket somehow else, but maybe it could mean the difference btw a subsidized vs unsubsidized stafford loan (he has a subsidized one this year) and/or getting a (bigger) Perkins loan. </p>
<p>We are nowhere near qualifying for a pell grant.</p>
<p>Or give brother unconditional gift of $12,000 and hope that brother, being nice guy, will open up New York 529 account for your kid with that $12,000. Then he will get NY state tax deduction for $5,000.</p>
<p>I would just read all the rules carefully about actually transferring ownership of account as opposed to opening a new one. Since your account is almost empty it might not matter which path you choose.</p>
<p>I don't want to give up the 12K pa tax deduction. That saves me $360 a year. No reason to give tax deduction benefit to brother unless he wants to kick in his own $$ :-)</p>
<p>I will be called the plan member services next week</p>
<p>I'm also going to explore opening an IRA. I think I might be able to get my AGI down by about $500 and save another 1000 on the EFC calculation. I already have a tax-deferred plan that the fafsa adds back in as income. I am real close to the phaseout and have to run some more numbers (I like numbers, really I do!)</p>
<p>I actually would never put my own $$$ in anyone else's name, even a favorite relative; they might get Alzheimers and then things could get really screwed up...and an audit would reveal interesting transfers around financial aid/tuition payment deadlines.</p>