@brantly why does that matter? everyone has different reasons to believe what they believe. College is the place where all view points should be expressed and everyone should have a platform to speak from.
“There is a distinct difference between believing in family values, and believing that abortion and the legalization of recreational marijuana aren’t right (which are values I happen to share), and passing judgement on those who think otherwise, or insisting that a country should mount laws enforcing those personal sets of values while curtailing the rights of others who do not share those values. It is one thing to be conservative, it is another entirely to be intrusive”
I am a hardcore fiscal conservative and I don’t give a rats behind about social issues as long as it doesn’t cost my tax dollar. That was such a misguided biased statement.
- I happen to not care about this viewpoint, but I can appreciate it - There are plenty of scientific opinion on both sides of whether life begins at conception or at birth, and this is as much a philosophical question as it is a science question. For people who think it's the former, it is not at all intrusive to oppose the legalization of murder of human life (from their perspective).
- What I do care about is whether any tax money should be allocated to anything abortion related. Sure you have the choice to pursue an abortion, but you should do it entirely at your cost, and I should not have to pay a cent for your personal choice unless it's threatening your life. There are plenty of fiscal conservatives who would make this argument. This is not imposing your belief on other people, but simply an opinion on what the role of government is, and a general opposition of the welfare state.
I am not going to debate taxes with you bearcats, but what of the tens of millions of Americans who pay taxes who are staunchly pro-choice? Shouldn’t their tax dollars go toward programs that facilitate abortions? And what of the tens of millions of taxpayers who believe that the defense budget is way too bloated? How much of their tax dollars are going toward funding defense programs? Let us be honest here, far fewer tax dollars are going to programs designed at assisting people with abortions than on defense. We can agree on as much. The US, like any highly developed nation, offers its people advanced citizenship. That means high standards of living, but it also means that everybody pitches in relative to their means, and in some ways, all taxpayer will sadly have to live with the fact that some of their hard earned tax money is being spent in ways that they do not approve. Alternatively, people’s tax money could be earmarked individually to go solely toward programs they support, but I have the distinct feeling that the government does not want that.
Neither of you need worry. Our government is happy to take your tax dollars and not care what you want!
My point exactly HRSMom. 
Nobody’s tax dollars are used for abortions, so nobody has to worry about that. It’s been that way since 1976 and it’s never going to change in our lifetimes.
@goblue8721 Because if a conservative says that he believes employers should be allowed to discriminate against gay people, I’m thinking that the gay people in the room (or the straight people in the room with gay family and friends) won’t take kindly to that. People tend to get testy when it’s personal, not just wonky policy stuff.
that is demonstrably false. Supreme court has ruled that the penalties for not having insurance in obamacare as a tax, which they argue is the reason why these penalties are constitutional.
While most health plans claim to comply with the provision that they don’t use federal subsidy to fund elective abortion costs (and there is a GAO report that shows that even this might not be true), the fact that they even offer such coverage (mostly with a copay option), without forcing the patients to bare 100% of the cost of such procedure is by definition “using tax dollar”, because these plans were made viable by widening risk pool with young individual enrollments, a lot of which coerced by these penalties (interpreted as tax by the supreme court)
@Alexandre
Likewise - I am not going to debate tax policy with you as you know what my response will be as a libertarian.
But you are demonstrating precisely my point - it would be intrusive for me to try to impose my opinion on whether someone has the right to do something legal that doesn’t otherwise affect me, but if the question is if someone has the right to do something that is subsidized by my tax dollar, it is not intrusive for me to voice my opinion and try to seek political action; if the question is if someone has the right to commit murder based on my interpretation that is shared by a significant portion of the population, it is not intrusive for me to voice my opinion and try to seek political action.
I really hate these political threads. Pointless negativity.
Things that will get your butt kicked at UMich…
Taking a crap on the civil liberties of gays…because you’ll have a TON of gay classmates.
Taking a crap on Muslims…because you’ll be going to school with a TON of Muslims
Taking a crap on Minorities/Immigrants…because you’ll be going to school with a TON of them
Taking a crap on Women…because the women at UMich are not there “to find a husband”…they are there to compete with you and have equal status.
Unfortunately, many conservative positions do kinda…push these personal boundaries. So yes, if you hold views that could be considered “taking a crap” on anyone you might want to keep those to yourself…because, yes, indeed, that attitude will likely cause you a lot of problems at UMich.
None of my positions take a crap on anyone, my positions are just different than a lot of people my age (and clearly, yours). But, I know there’s nothing I can do to convince you or them of that, that’s not my goal. My goal is to be able to speak freely and express my views, and even have perhaps have a discussion that does not result in getting my “butt kicked” or getting thrown off campus like a lot of conservative speakers. But it seems like you want everyone to think and act the same, which is fine! This thread is kind of telling me all I need to know, thanks!
@goblue8721 I am glad how this thread turned out - this is reflective of the general radical left culture at Michigan based on my experience during my time there. What you see here is what you get.
When kids disagree with you, they will say you are a bigot who is personally attacking them or their friends, instead of making a counter argument.
For example, if you make the argument that illegal immigrants should be deported (I personally don’t want this because many of them fill our below minimum wage shadow jobs and keep cost low for us) - an argument based on the belief that we are a society governed by law and laws should be respected - instead of making an legit counterargument (and there are many), they will say, you are a facist xenophobic nationalist and “taking a crap on immigrant”
Health care was a hot topic back when I was in school. I was taking a class called "social change … " (don’t remember the exact topic, just took it to fulfill requirements). I merely made the argument that access to subsidized health care is not a fundamental right guaranteed by the constitution - and I was told by the hippie professor that this was extremely offensive “because he and many in this room have lost people due to claims denied due to preexisting condition”. I made the further argument that forcing insurance companies to accept pre-existing condition is simply risk pool averaging that is unfair to healthy people in the pool, I was told to leave the discussion group. I ended up dropping the class.
A friend of mine who graduated after me made the argument in another social studies class that objective analysis of the evidence in the Trayvon Martin case would not warrant a conviction, and he was immediately called a racist because that is ridiculous. He further pointed out that the Martin camp tried to manipulate the jury by continuously showing a 12 year old kid photo - and he was told by the GSI that racism has no place in the class and was effectively told to shut it or leave, despite making completely valid and correct arguments (especially in light of the actual verdict after the fact).
Bottom line - You WILL very likely be graded harder in political science class if you don’t subscribe to liberal beliefs. You WILL be graded harder if you crap on Keynesian economics and express belief in supply-side economics. I learned my lesson early on (luckily in pass-fail classes) and have gotten straight As by writing papers the way I know the professors like (obama is king, yay keyesian etc etc).
The irony of people taking a crap on others idea, then saying it’s because you are “taking a crap” on someone, but that’s the reality on most college campuses nowadays.They have no problem crapping on 1%s, wall street, [insert anything they disagree with] however.
btw Business school and engineering school are a bit more moderate and more tolerant in this regard.
goblue8721, I am not sure why you are apprehensive. I assume you want to be open about your personal beliefs with the friends you will make at Michigan. Like I said earlier, if you are respectful, you can discuss any topic with the friends you make at Michigan. I certainly did, and I have some pretty unusual opinions!
@Alexandre with all due respect, you attended college way earlier than i did, and I attended college way earlier than these kids are about to. The political climate both in the real world and on college campus has changed completely… unfortunately.
bearcats, I never left. My nephew is at Michigan right now (about to complete his Freshman year). He is cut of the same cloth and he is loving it. So are many other Middle Eastern students I know currently at Michigan who share my values. The climate has not changed. If you are out to convince others that you are right and they are wrong, and if you disrespect others’ points of views, then do not expect to be welcomed. That is human nature. But if you are respectful, and first establish the basis of friendship before delving into personal discussions, you should have no trouble making friends at Michigan.
As a current student, I couldn’t agree more with @Alexandre’a previous comment. No one really cares about your political ideologies/party as long as you’re respectful and not threatening nor harming other students.
@bearcats @Alexandre @Wolverine251 this is all very helpful input, thank you so much!
@bearcats Please google the Hyde Amendment. It explicitly prohibits federal funds from being used to pay for abortions. Since 1976.
You raise the idea that tax subsidies for insurance premiums is “federal funding” for abortion. If that’s the case, there’s no end to the amount if INDIRECT funding anyone can claim is happening. Corporate employees get tax subsidies on their health insurance because their premium is paid out of pretax dollars. If a CEO uses the corporate insurance to pay for her abortion is that considered federal funding? Or is it only federal funding if an individual who buys insurance from her state’s exchange gets an abortion?
Is it federal funding if someone uses public roads or public subway built with fed transportation dollars to travel to the doctor? Is it federal funding if the original builder of the building where the procedure is performed received some kind of tax advantages for the construction?
Enough about taxes/abortion. That is straight up politics and not allowed here.
Goblue, you will be fine. Like all elite schools, the loudest students are very liberal, but in general, having opposite views is not considered “bad”.
There are some elite schools with a student body that leans more conservative than Michigan’s. Consider Vanderbilt. Rice, Emory, etc. Yes, there will be liberal students at all of those, but on the whole students I know who are currently at these schools categorize them as having a more conservative feel than UM.
Good point Mountaingirl. There are a handful of elite universities that have more conservative student bodies. Georgetown, UVa, Washington & Lee and William and Mary also come to mind.