<p>yeah...but bob jones is crazy...lol</p>
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A good college should be neither "liberal" nor "conservative," or at least it should hold itself above such petty political distinctions. What constitutes "liberal" or "conservative" varies from year to year.
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</p>
<p>A good college should be open to both sides of the debate, true. However, it is the innate nature of liberalism to be open to all sides of the debate, which in turn makes most places of higher learning rather liberal. Liberalism is nuanced; it isn't simple. In conservatism, you simply have to say: "I'm right. End of discussion." (Ex: Gays are repulsive according to the one true Word, and therefore should not have equal rights in marriage.) </p>
<p>Also, nice attempt at sounding knowledgable/intelligent. What constitutes "liberal" and "conservative" does NOT change every year. Maybe every few decades (like when women getting the right to vote was considered liberal), but definitely not every year.</p>
<p>"It is no secret that the vast majority of college students and professors these days are political liberals, socialists, and extreme leftists."</p>
<p>You got the first one right, but after that you went into crazy con nutjob mode. Academia is liberal no doubt, but the socialist left and the extreme left? Sure, but they are a small minority on most universities. I know only one person who honestly identifies as a socialist, and extreme liberalism is rare. Despite what the right may think, there is a conservative movement at Berkeley, and it has certainly increased its activities post-2000. Berkeley per se does have its extreme left elements, but the university is becoming more conservative.</p>
<h1>17 summed up my response pretty well.</h1>
<p>Don't confuse me for a pure liberal though. Not in today's Democratic Party sense. If anything, my views fall roughly within libertarianism.</p>
<p>hmm i believe it was neal boortz that theorized that liberals are the majority in higher education because during the days of the draft, the best way to dodge it was to stay in college. therefore the hippies stayed in college and then found that they were incompetent in the real world, so they stayed as professors.</p>
<p>"...conservative students are made to feel like outsiders, like there is something wrong with them"</p>
<p>Up here, if one comments that in their view gay marriages don't provide the best hope for stability in society, immediately one is branded a discriminatory bigot. </p>
<p>There are as many different nuances in conservative opinions as there are in liberalism, not everyone's objection to gay marriage stems from the opinion that "Gays are repulsive according to the one true Word, and therefore should not have equal rights in marriage." </p>
<p>I find the assertion that 'In conservatism, you simply have to say: "I'm right. End of discussion." ' as presumptuous as the far religious right's take on gay marriage.</p>
<p>So I might be wrong.</p>
<p>Please, explain to me logically why gays should be denied the right to marry? I trust you'll refer me to studies and the like to back your case up.</p>
<p>Elphaba, unfortunately, in todays day and age, a good, well advertised proportion of socially conservative thinking does rest on such premises.</p>
<p>In my opinion, IDEALLY, marriage as it is defined today should not be valid. Only civil unions should be. The problem is that the government only sanctions heterosexual marriages, excluding gays. That brings in the whole of separation of church and state, which I do not wish to elaborate on. REALISTICALLY, since that isn't going to happen anytime soon, it is necessary to extend marriage rights to gays.</p>
<p>I think we've started to drift way off topic though.</p>
<p>
[quote]
A good college should be open to both sides of the debate, true.
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No, you misunderstand. Colleges should not be giving "equal representation" or some such, but rather should transcend the merely political. I don't subscribe to the Fox News/CNN theory of secondary education, whereby gathering loud idiots from both extremes somehow negates the pernicious effects of having loud idiots doing all the talking.</p>
<p>TheKramer is actually right. During most of the Vietnam War the government allowed all of those enrolled in ANY kind of college (undergrad or grad) to remain in college and not be subject to the draft. This might sound like an implication that cowards are liberals, but it's really not. </p>
<p>I think conservatives and liberals probably jumped at this opportunity equally, but the aforementioned conservatives, would have had to admit their cowardice unless...they totally reversed their social views so they could use the liberal "I don't believe in or support the war" argument. I think it explains WHY the direct response toward returning Vietnam veterans was really outright violent and bitter. I think those conservatives who had dodged the draft knew deep down that they were cowards, but thought that if they put on a big enough show protesting and belittling those men who did go, it would make their inadequacies less painful/obvious. Seriously, why else would all of those college students who were supposedly protesting the DRAFT treat soldiers who were DRAFTED like they were scum? Logically, their efforts should have been focused solely on the government, but they weren't. Half the scenes we see from footage is of students throwing urine on weary shell-shocked soldiers. Who would even do that? That's outright rage, and not the kind that comes solely from being against some far off war.</p>
<p>Anyway, while all of those people who were self-proclaimed liberals were at college they were getting A) the most advanced degrees, and B) not killed.
Those who had gone off to fight came home years behind their draft-dodging ccounterparts who had, after ten years, become super qualified for any job. When it came down to applying for real jobs after the war's end it was uneducated war vets VS. liberal extremely educated college graduates for a large number of jobs, especially jobs in colleges where many had already been professional students for years.
And so they continued hiring liberals and those liberals continued doing the same and so on.</p>
<p>I think it's plausible but it's open for critique.</p>
<p>I like La Roche because it's really neutral politically, probably a bit on the conservative side since it's a pretty religious place (nuns teach some classes).</p>
<p>At my old school, Mount Union, I was the only conservative I knew. Only one of my friends was a moderate. The rest were all democrats. So were the professors, whose liberal viewpoints (especially the jerk I had for government) always clashed with mine. It got pretty ugly sometimes.</p>
<p>Even when politics wasn't directly being discussed, they were so adamant about their political beliefs that they pretty much ripped on me every chance they got. For example, I had this stupid freshman orientation class. We had to seperate facts and opinions. One question was about pornography and it being insulting to women. I said that the answer was a big yes, that women are insulted by it. The freaking liberal professor said that I was out of my mind and the kids labeled me a lunatic! WHAT THE BLOODY HELL?!? THIS IS COLLEGE WHERE YOU CAN EXPRESS YOURSELVES!!! I almost stormed out of class that day, but instead debated my viewpoint...and lost.</p>
<p>Yeah, I know that was more religion than politics, but Mount Union was supposedly affiliated with a church. That college is a major league joke...and really liberal too.</p>
<p>My suggestion is that you ask at orientation what the beliefs of the campus are in general. An honest place will tell you.</p>
<p>Seems a tad bit far-fetched. For some reason I still don't understand the connection? That must've meant those conservatives were ridiculous bordering insane...</p>
<p>Well, I don't see any flaws in it. Borderline insane or afraid of dying in a foreign jungle? I think they just didn't believe in conservatism strongly enough to die for it.</p>
<p>I find that holding a minority opinion amoungst a crowd of like-minded people -- being the voice of dissent, I guess -- is often more fun and interesting than being surrounded by people you agree with. Unless you **** them off too badly, that is, and they get violent. Though that could also be fun.</p>
<p>Well, I go to college in Alabama and there are definitely conservative people on my campus. It can't be just students that are, either, but I've never had a professor that used politics very heavily in their lectures. The most I've ever heard is professors mention going to church or them off-handedly say something not incredibly flattering about Bush (although, I do know people who are otherwise conservative that still don't like Bush so...). </p>
<p>I have friends that are very liberal, moderate, and very conservative. I am a moderate with liberal leanings. We all hang out together. It's not really a big deal, we just don't talk about politics or religion when we're together most of the time (whenever we do, someone usually gets offended so we just stay off that whole area of conversation).</p>
<p>I wrote a long post but decided against it. So here's the short version:</p>
<p>Wouldn't you agree: We go to college to get educated. Generally, the more education one has, the more informed one is. </p>
<p>As you've stated, the most educated and informed people in society are liberal leaning. That should tell you something.</p>
<p>However, don't take that to mean that I believe everything liberal is better, because I just don't believe in dividing worldy ideologies into two absolute sides. If you really wanted to be in the minority opinion, you would abandon the whole liberal-conservative frames that society has fitted for you. It's utter nonsense designed to simplify things for our incessantly dumbed down society :) The fact that the majority of Americans fall under "moderate" just means that the liberal-conservative scale is a terrible way of classifying things :)</p>
<p>There are many degrees of liberalism and there are many degrees of conservatism. </p>
<p>Higher education is by nature LIBERAL, think of the upsurge of liberal values and the concept of liberal education during the Enlightenment.</p>
<p>Or were you talking about "liberal" in the accusatory sense that most conservatives now use it? Many people call themselves liberal because they are socially libertarian, which I would most DEFINITELY not associate with the extreme left. </p>
<p>One of the most important lessons I have learned is that it is naive to think that the world can so easily be divided into good vs. evil, right vs. wrong, liberal vs. conservative. Most people define themselves as one or the other while really being a fusion of values from both. And yes--- attending one of your alleged leftist havens taught me that.</p>
<p>Any scholarly environment that accepts anything as gospel/absolute truth is not an effective scholarly environment at all. In my experience, I have had a fairly good mix of professors, none of which have forced leftist views on me, and one who openly admitted that he was quiet conservative.</p>
<p>And liberal universe? I have heard liberal thrown around as an INSULT in political ads. Most would agree that the world is becoming more conservative.</p>
<p>Also, for those of you who are saying the liberals didn't fight in Vietnam, let us not forget that Vietnam was perpetuated for a decade under democratic presidents and at the end of the day it was a republican that decided to "cut and run", sooo....oh how the tables have turned.</p>
<p>The matter of not being drafted usually fell upon a particular socioeconomic class rather than a particular political leaning. If you could afford to go to college, you could at least delay the possibility for a couple of years. It is the poorer demographic that got sent into Vietnam to die. If you were wealthy and college-educated (like John Kerry) you could at least be an officer (not that that makes his service any less noble, it is just a fact of life that infantrymen generally take the brunt of violent injuries).</p>
<p>So really, the people who stayed here and received a college education did not get better jobs because they were cowardly liberals, magicmonkey, they were privileged to begin with. It is a widely known fact that during Vietnam (and today) the military and the draft was disproportionately made up of minorities. Lastly, many veterans were afforded the opportunity to move up in the world by the GI Bill (a la FDR, another of those evil, evil liberals). My dad was drafted and he ended up receiving a college education AFTER Vietnam that he otherwise would not have gotten.</p>
<p>"...we just don't talk about politics or religion when we're together most of the time (whenever we do, someone usually gets offended so we just stay off that whole area of conversation)."</p>
<p>Haha. Thats like the polar opposite of me. Politics is probably the number one topic I discuss with my friends. And sometimes our discussions get quite heated and PC is tossed out. Good times.</p>