Considering what my debt load will be, am I crazy to consider law school?

Graduate School Law School
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<p>Let me preface by saying I've read some excellent threads that deal with the topic of debt -- especially one in which "Sally" breaks down how $160K really pans out in NYC after student loans are taken into consideration (not very well).</p>

<p>So, I'm hoping "Sally" and others can look at my specific numbers and tell me whether I can survive after law school.</p>

<p>First, some background: I am not a kid! I am 30 years old and have been in the workforce for more than six years. I am a journalist for a brand-name, national publication. I love to read and obviously love to write. I also have an MA.</p>

<p>I will be attending a "top 20" institution if I <em>do</em> go to law school because I've decided, like "Sally" before me, that I'm simply not going to go if I don't get into a top school. I've heard too many horror stories about going to lower-ranked schools and then being left with limited options after graduation, so this is something I plan to stick to my guns on. (And I do have the grades/practice LSAT scores to have a reasonable chance to achieve this goal.)</p>

<p>My interest currently is copyright law (my field is arts & entertainment and I already have a good deal of knowledge about the topic). However, I am <em>well</em> aware of the fact that law school does not work like college and that you don't have a "major" and that you may change direction once you actually start to study law.</p>

<p>Now, on to the main point: My parents helped put me through college, but could not and did not help me at all with my MA. Because I went straight from college to grad school, I had no savings and paid my <em>entire</em> way through with loans, both public and private. </p>

<p>I have $80K in debt from the MA. I consolidated everything I could right after graduating to keep my payments as low as possible, as entry-level jobs in the journalism world are not particularly high-paying and I knew it would take me years to work up the pay-scale ladder. (I also live in NYC, meaning even basic expenses are high.) So, I've got a 30-year term on the bulk of my debt, and my payments are manageable.</p>

<p>But, as with grad school, I will not have any family contributions toward law school. Because I'm aiming top 20, I'm looking at anywhere from $30K-$50K/year in tuition plus living expenses. Of course, I will cross my fingers for some scholarship help, but I know I can't count on anything.</p>

<p>So, bottom line, I expect to come out with $120K-$170K in new student loan debt, giving me a total of <em>at least</em> $200K in debt, possibly as much as $250K when I graduate!!!</p>

<p>Because of my interest in copyright law, I <em>assume</em> I'll go "biglaw" after graduating, but how long I'll last is anyone's guess and I know hiring is getting squeezed by the economy. Then there's always the possibility I realize mid-way through law school I really want to do public interest.</p>

<p>As a note, and as I've mentioned elsewhere, I am <em>not</em> going to law school for the money. I have a genuine interest in learning about the law and think I could excel at it. But, because of the debt situation I'm facing, I'm wondering if it is crazy to even be thinking about law school. Am I DOOMED because of my already-high debt? Will I be forced to go "biglaw," like it or not? And if I end up wanting to save the world, will I be a shoo-in for bankruptcy should I decide on public interest law?</p>

<p>HELP!</p>

2

<p>keep in mind that unless you get a full tution scholarship someplace (you will still have to pay for housing) it is safe to say the the first $20,500 of your FA package will be in the form of stafford loans (provided you have not maxed out). </p>

<p>The max. stafford loan limit is $138,500 (from this amount you will have to deduct any unpaid stafford loans you currently have to find out how much you can borrow through the stafford loan program.</p>

<p>Of the $20,500 a year that you can borrow through the stafford loan progam, about 1/2 of this will be unsubsidized (the government will pay the interest on any subsidized loans you have while you are in school).</p>

<p>the current interest rate is 6.8%.</p>

<p>just doing a simple calculation of 250,000 @ 6.8% over 30 years, you will have monthly payments in the amount of $1,629 (this is considering all of your loans are at 6.8%)</p>

<p>FinAid</a> | Calculators</p>

<p>I suggest that you run your numbers using various calculations to see how this works for you.</p>

3

<p>Sybbie, thanks so much for your input and the links!</p>

<p>If anyone else has stories/advice/suggestions they want to share, by all means do -- I could clearly use the help. :)</p>

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<p>Lifechange, it's so difficult to tell any individual what is best for them, particularly given how little we know about you.</p>

<p>That said, in the grand scheme of things, taking out $200,000 of student loans is not much different than taking out $150,000 of student loans for law school alone. However, either scenario means that you will be absolutely under water with these debts for a long, long time. The amount of indebtedness you ultimately have will affect the kinds of jobs you are able to take (and, as a result, the certain threat to any work/life balance you may seek now or in the future). However, to the extent that a BIGLAW job is not available to you (and, in this economy, word is that even HLS students are finding it difficult to get prime jobs as BIGLAW firms cancel on campus interviews, become more selective and downsize their summer programs). In other words, there are no guarantees that you will find a BIGLAW job.</p>

<p>My personal experience having had over $140,000 of student loan debt when I emerged from law school was tough. First of all, associates didn't get paid $160,000 per year when I started (in fact, it was just a bit more than half of that). Even with $160,000 per year in salary, though, your monthly loan payments will likely mean that you will struggle (perhaps mightily) to make ends meet.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, I believe that sybbie has underestimated by a good bit what your monthly payments might look like. First of all, for the entire amount of your loans exceeding the maximum Stafford loan amount, your interest rate will likely exceed the federal government max interest rates by a good deal, and those private loans cannot be consolidated, so that you cannot pay them over a 30-year term. Second, unless things change drastically, I believe that it will be increasingly difficult for students to obtain private loans in such large amounts as lenders tighten up their lending policies and BIGLAW jobs become increasingly difficult to come by. Finally, your Stafford loans will have much shorter terms (and resultant higher payments) until such time as you consolidate them (to the extent that consolidation remains available in the credit climate when you graduate from law school). Consolidation is not always available over a 30-year term. Sometimes only a 20-year term is available, in which case, again, your payments would be higher than those suggested by sybbie.</p>

<p>Moreover, even the monthly amounts due pursuant to sybbie's are pretty high. The monthly amounts that I had to pay on my student loan indebtedness were approximately what sybbie suggested, and I have to tell you that I did not live high on the hog. In fact, it was probably a blessing that I worked all day and all night so that at least my dinner was paid for by my clients. I honestly could not have afforded to pay for it on my own. I lived in a small 1 bedroom apartment in a very non-glamorous building on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, but I really have no complaints there. I truly was not home from work very much other than to sleep (occasionally!!!) and shower. I never ate out, rode the subway religiously (no taxis for me!), went out with friends rarely (probably more a function of my hours at work than money, though I wouldn't have had money anyway) and was broke at the end of every month after paying all of my bills (literally, less than $20 in my bank account). </p>

<p>That said, I was also working in time when salaries began to increase, when bonuses were quite big and when there was an air of optimism in the economy. I used at least 75% of my bonus money to pay off student loans, continuing to live in my tiny apartment and without the luxuries that many of my colleagues enjoyed for a number of years. I made paying off my student loans a priority and have much more flexibility now, years later, because I paid them off as quickly as possible. </p>

<p>The question for you is whether you want to live so frugally for 7-8 years after law school ends until after you have turned 40? Do you want to be working that hard, and with so many personal sacrifices, in a BIGLAW job if you can find one and then keep it for that long (a BIG question mark in the current economy, where associates are being laid off openly and discreetly in many, if not most, BIGLAW firms)? What happens if these things don't work out?</p>

<p>Perhaps you should consider going to law school in the evenings while you continue to work? Perhaps lower your aim a bit, and try for a law school where you might get merit money? The other thing you need to consider that often the media/entertainment law jobs are not found in BIGLAW, and therefore, don't pay those big salaries. In fact, to the best of my knowledge, many of the top entertainment/media law boutiques do not hire students right out of law school but instead look to the BIGLAW firms (and others) to train them and then recruit attorneys with experience. Furthermore, getting into the sports/entertainment practice area of the few BIGLAW firms that offer it is highly competitive and not guaranteed (I know that Proskauer Rose in NYC, for example, is a big feeder program for entertainment/media law firms; however, Proskauer's practice focuses on sports/media). </p>

<p>In any event, before you make this decision, perhaps you should do some research and talk to law firms that practice entertainment/media law and get their recommendations. </p>

<p>I hope that this is helpful for you.</p>

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<p>Wow! Thank you for the time and care you put into this response, Sally. You have given me a <em>lot</em> of food for thought. Thanks for sharing your own story and being so open. It's very helpful to have real-life experiences to compare my own situation with, even though I realize things work out very differently for each individual.</p>

<p>Question for you: you say perhaps I should consider a lower-ranked school so that a merit scholarship might be an option. But would I be shooting myself in the foot as far as how many options I might have after school?</p>

<p>Also, as a note, I'm thinking of taking my interest in copyrights down the IP road instead of going into entertainment law, so that I can keep my "biglaw" options more open. (Of course, whether or not there will be many "biglaw" jobs available four years from now is anyone's guess.)</p>

6

<p>Yes, attending a lower ranked school may well affect your chances at obtaining a BIGLAW job. However, if you pay less for school because you've received merit scholarships, perhaps your need to work at a job that pays as much money as BIGLAW would be alleviated. How would not working at BIGLAW for at least some amount of time affect your opportunities going forward? I honestly just can't say. Plenty of copyright attorneys never stepped foot in a BIGLAW law firm, so perhaps they are in a better position to offer you advice. Ultimately, it's a tradeoff, and one that only you can decide for yourself whether it is worth making.</p>