Super helpful everyone, very relevant to my D’s thought process.
Bridgenail noted that the walls generally apply to the school productions, while student led productions would be different. Yes, and so if my D is not enrolled in an MT program but wants to participate, are certain of the universities discussed here and elsewhere known for an especially vibrant student production scene, which could lead to a great many opportunities to participate even if not at the highest levels? Seems I’ve heard mention of Brown (not in the same category of UMich/NYU/USC/RICEetc) for example having a large number of student led productions going on all the time, while some of the more siloed places may not?
Yes the LAC world would likely have fewer walls, but what we’ve found so far is that the top-notch academic LACs do not generally have great opportunities in music, VP, choirs, MT. Sure they can have good music departments, but at one great LAC we visited recently the audition choir was lower caliber than her current HS choir, which really soured her on the place.
If she could combine the academic environment of a Carleton or Williams with the music department of a St Olaf she might be getting happier … but even that leaves out the contemporary opportunities of the universities in composition, songwriting, recording (of her own stuff, not entering a sound engineering program), leading to broadening the list again.
Which of course just reinforces the need to develop some focus, and realization that she won’t be able to do it all, as has been wisely repeated here!
Yes, you are finding out the conundrum for music in college - particularly for vocalists. They are used to a wide range in high school and being successful in many genres. It was something that we had to come to terms with as well. It’s best to be knowledgeable about this so she doesn’t become disappointed once entering.
I wish I had some good schools to offer up but my D wanted to do music performance foremost. So we “lead” with that (VP and MT - usually auditioning twice at one school since they are separate programs at many schools … but not all) and did not do the strong academic side. She still wanted solid academics and a university degree but she would not have considered Brown etc since music was most important.
I do think you will find a good fit. There are some other not responding to this thread that are very knowledgeable on some of the east coast LACs with dual degree programs. I’m wondering if you start your own thread “leading” with “dual degree schools or LACs with good music programs” that you may get some good recommendations.
Oh and of course I do think you have a few good suggestions already in NYU or USC…still these schools can be a bit pricey for some…and of course you want more than 2 schools…
You’ve gotten some great advice so far @iasetter , if I were in your shoes I’d be asking as many have, what she likes most and see if you can find programs that do well at that one thing but have many of the other interests she has and are open to taking classes in those areas.
As for schools, The New School has a 5 year MFA program that you might want to look into and Tulane which we visited but didn’t make my D’s list was very open for all majors and did offer contemporary and classical music. Tulane and Loyola are right next to each other and have a reciprocal relationship where students can take classes at the other school if they’re not offered at the attending school so I’d suggest you look at both.
All of the other schools my D applied to (Memphis, Berklee, UMass Lowell, St. Rose, Colorado-Denver, Berklee, and U Arts) offer both classical and contemporary programs as well as classes in songwriting and music business.
She also might want to take a good look at Cal Arts which is extremely open minded and allows students to take classes in whatever they want. We both really liked Cal Arts and were a bit disappointed she didn’t apply. It sounds like your D is a bit further ahead with her songwriting than mine. A portfolio of songs was required which is why it fell off the list. They have wonderful MT, Acting, Dance, World, Classical, and Contemporary music programs and the atmosphere seemed like a playground for artistically gifted students.
Good luck to her and I encourage you to continue your research and visit as many schools as you can that she might seriously consider. We found that sometimes what we thought was the story from the school’s website turned out to be different once meeting the faculty and touring campus.
@PopPrincessPop, yes we’ve just started visits but I’m getting round to the realization on how important they can be, though tough when options are from one coast to another. I do think the songwriting is something she’ll pursue - she certainly has a great deal of material - but she’s also been so private about it, enjoying performing her own stuff but not yet interested in workshops or feedback, so we’ll see if it becomes a career path or a long-term hobby.
and thanks for this thread, very informative re the universe of contemporary and business focused programs, best of luck to your d!
@PopPrincessPop I am so thankful for this thread and have read through the entire thing at least three different times! Your D must be getting ready to start school in Memphis soon! Once she gets settled in, I’d love to hear how she likes the program and school.
My D is a senior now and as such is a year behind your D. She is also very much interested in more of a commercial/pop program that offers music business as well. I have been scouring the Internet searching for schools that offer what she is looking for and your thread has been incredibly helpful. We looked at all of the schools on your D’s list and have narrowed our focus down to these schools which all offer talent/merit scholarships.
Berklee (of course!)
UC Denver
Belmont
Memphis
Berklee is her first choice. She has a friend that is a Songwriting major in her third year and she absolutely loves it. We live in Colorado, so she’ll be able to audition in Denver for Berklee and bring her accompanist which is really nice.
My D has another friend studying VP at UC Denver and she’s doing extremely well. The program’s look fantastic and D’s friend speaks very highly of CAM and has offered to show my D around when we go up to tour the school.
As for Belmont & Memphis, they both look great as well. Nashville is a big draw for my D as she prefers to be in an urban environment. We won’t get to visit until audition time, but can hopefully spend more time at that point.
My D is very fortunate to have attended a local conservatory for the last nine years and has a rich classical background in voice, theory, aural skills, theater, dance & composition. She’s had amazing mentors to guide her and many performance opportunities in musical theatre. Being classically trained is great and has helped her realize she does not want to continue on a classical path in vocal performance. Her heart definitely lies in more pop/contemporary music and she has her own style.
Please keep us updated on your D’s college experience! I can’t wait to hear how it goes for her!
Thanks so much @songbirdmama - we literally leave tomorrow to drop my D off for move in at Memphis. She’s pretty excited, has talked with her roommate and made some other friends online that she’s looking forward to meet. Her class schedule is set and she’s looking forward to auditioning for an being placed in ensembles.
I’m glad the thread has been helpful, it was invaluable for me to sort out thoughts and get suggestions from the great group of parents and students on the board.
Good luck to your D, mine applied to all of those schools with the exception of Belmont. UC Denver has a great program and if you’re in Colorado, I’d consider that one pretty highly. The campus is very urban and Denver is a great city for the Arts. My D loved Music Industry Camp there and wants to return to Denver at some point.
Classical training is very important, my D has found it very valuable especially for Music Theory.
I’ll definitely let you and the group know how my D is progressing at Memphis once she gets settled in. If / when your D visits Memphis for auditions let me know and maybe we can have the young ladies meet up.
Just a note: songbirdmama is not @SongbirdMomma My D is VP major starting Bienen at Northwestern as a freshman. I’m not as active here now since we are past auditions etc, but I will continue to follow and post throughout her studies. Hope the names don’t continue to be a source of confusion!
Such an exciting time for your D @PopPrincessPop!! If/when my D heads to Memphis for her audition, I’ll definitely let you know. We Are seriously considering UCDenver for sure. We are heading up there in two weeks for a Preview Day. If my D applies that day (which she will), they will waive the application fee. Nice perk! It will be nice to meet some faculty, sit in on a lecture, tour the campus, etc. I’ll let you all know how that goes!
I’m not sure if anyone else has looked in/near Los Angeles, but I came across what looks like an excellent program at Los Angeles College of Music. They even offer merit/talent scholarships. I was disheartened to learn that they are a for profit school. They have accreditation from NASM but no regional accreditation. I’m pretty sure that means other colleges won’t accept their credits should my D wish to further her education down the road. We were both pretty bummed about that one. So, it is off the list. We haven’t added any others to the list, so D is concentrating on writing music, and working on other audition materials.
Quick update for those interested…so far so good for my D in Memphis! I got to see her last weekend for Parent’s weekend and she likes it there. We got to enjoy a football game and their incredible marching band. In general she likes her classes even though she’s got 8am’s every day.
The weather has been hotter than she expected which she thought she’d like but she’s actually looking forward to cooler temperatures. She’s joined a couple of clubs and even found an off-campus job at the local mall to help out with pocket money and is getting along great with her roommate.
I got to see her first ensemble performance and she’s off to a nice start. Her vocal teacher is on the Memphis walk of fame and has tasked her to gather a band and she’s required to perform 5 songs in front of a jury by the end of the semester. She’s been in the studio to record her ensemble selections and continues to write some original material that she hopes to record before the end of the semester.
Hi @SongbirdMomma. My daughter is auditioning for commercial voice at Denver on Dec. 2. Were you able to audition on the preview day or no? I also looked at the Cal State Los Angeles and agree with your decision not to submit. We have the same schools on your list but we’re also applying to Loyola, USC and NYU Clive Davis. I know the programs at USC and NYU are extremely competitive.
I’ve also seen mention of commercial music at Azusa Pacific and the Chicago College of Performing Arts. I’m not certain whether to add these schools or not.
My daughter is more soul-pop and she has about 3 original songs with lyric sheets we can submit for pop VP or singer-songwriter program.
Hi @mnzmom you and your daughter should check out Cal Arts. They’ve got an outstanding singer/songwriter program and it sounds like your daughter has original material for the portfolio requirement.
Thank you very much! We were looking for a traditional 4 year college, but I will have her visit Cal Arts! She was just accepted at UC Denver’s program and got high marks at Loyola New Orleans commercial music program. Do you think the Cal Arts program is much better?
Great news about Denver and Loyola @mnzmom !! Both are great programs, my D really loved Loyola, the campus, staff, and facilities are all excellent. Were it not for a better offer from Memphis, she’d be there now.
I wouldn’t say Cal Arts has a “better” program, its just different. It seems to be very geared towards singer/songwriters and provides a lot of freedom to structure a very independent program. They have tons of world music influences. They have a regular showcase at a club in Downtown LA as well as a yearly recording with Capitol records.
I think Denver and Loyola are a bit more structured, and also based on sticker price, cheaper, but you never know with scholarships.