Contemporary Vocal Performance AND Music Business Programs

College Majors Music Major
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If you go the LAC/ ivy route, understand that very few of these schools offer performance degrees or BFA’s. So the best you can rely on is a theatre or music degree (academic) combined with voice lessons. But few schools provide voice lessons, and even fewer will guarantee the availability of lessons ( some schools have a lottery, others give preference to upoerclassmen. )

Ultimately D ruled out Barnard because of that issue. I was just not prepared to pay $125 per lesson out of pocket for private voice lessons, and they could not guarantee availability through the school.

In contrast, younger D who was an art major, was able to take voice lessons at NYU for several semesters for a slight fee.

Muhlenberg, NYU, American, GW, Skidmore and Brandeis all provided voice lessons when we were searching for schools. But you need to do your own research because this was from several years ago. Both D’s ended up at NYU. One a VP major earning a BM in vocal performance with a MT concentration. Younger D is graduating in 2 weeks with a Studio art degree and lots of voice lessons.

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Has her voice teacher indicated anything about the future of her voice? Contemporary, MT and classical can be very different voice types in many kids - but not all. Often the type of voice dictates to an extent where a student may be successful. Without understanding her voice type its hard to answer many of your questions. Or maybe its too early to tell (more typical in males) but in that case going to a music school that allows you to explore and grow would be best. Some LACs (like Luther) are better if you are exploring (however I don’t think Luther does much, if any, MT or is known for contemporary music). So narrowing a bit may help point out some schools. But you are free to stay wide and look at schools like Luther or maybe St. Olaf in MN (which does do choir, MT, opera - but I’m not sure about contemporary). I know Iowa State as well has a very wide program - MT, choirs, opera and jazz - again not sure about contemporary. Lawrence in WI would be a good choice for strong academics and great music where you could do a BA or BM - but no MT and again contemporary would not be a focus. So there in lies the difficulty. Many music schools tend to have strengths in certain areas but not all. So school recommendations would depend on which style of voice or if its truly is all for now. Then you would need to start looking at BA vs BM vs double degree. For example some schools like Lawrence and Oberlin are known for double degrees. But these schools do not do MT. So continue to discuss with your daughter her aspirations and maybe have a discussion with her voice teacher (if not done already). These discussions should help you maybe have some wide range music schools and maybe a few more targeted programs. I hope this helps in some way.

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As an overlooked school Drew in Madison NJ. My sons best friend went there for voice and tours with the choral group.

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If your EFC is low or zero, then USC’s popular music program is a very strong candidate. USC is very generous with grant money for low EFC students. If your EFC is high, then I think it’s pretty useless to apply there, because Thornton gives very little talent scholarship money. At least, that’s my experience–but it may not be 100% true for everyone.

One other caveat–they have some competitive full and half-tuition academic merit scholarships that should be taken into consideration if your D is stellar academically. Be sure to apply early to be considered for those!! They also have automatic half tuition for National Merit Scholars.

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@uskoolfish good point on the lessons. We have found a broad diversity of policies there and not at all predictable, so it looks like one needs to make a good spreadsheet and dig into each school - it’s not even on the web site in some cases.

Thanks @robotrainbow and @choirsandstages for the school suggestions, haven’t heard of Drew and re USC, our EFC is not near zero but I’ll look into it a bit more.

@bridgenail, her music teachers are classical, and her voice teachers even disagree on whether she “is” a natural alto or soprano, as she has a large range. Her upper voice is certainly not operatic, and her mid-lower range is mostly what she uses for singer-songwriting performing and is amazingly rich and strong. Very true Luther and St Olaf (very similar programs) do not have much in contemporary music or music business, which is why I mentioned we’re broadening the search away from the more traditional LACs.

Which brings us back to attempting to narrow down what she really wants in the performing arts world. But for now a more specific question may be, what schools that DO do contemporary, music business, etc (like many of those PopPrincessPop and D were looking at) ALSO have classical vocal/choirs and high quality academics, opportunities for double majoring in music and non music related areas … or are the types of programs simply too divergent and programs focused on contemporary and music biz requiring all of a student’s attention?

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Well, again, @iasetter USC fits that criteria perfectly! They have a very renowned choral music program and they do support double majors. I know of someone in the popular music program who made the top choir his freshman year (apparently that choir is mostly upperclassmen).

For me, the biggest downside of USC was the location being in LA … but if you can get past that…

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thanks @choirsandstages, we’ll definitely look into USC! For me location would be a drawback yes, but for my D it may be an entirely different matter :slight_smile:

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I’m not familiar enough with contemporary music/music business to give good recommendations.

I will say that it is quite common for parents and kids in Jr year to be looking at “doing it all” in college. It has worked in high school. The kid is high achieving. Why couldn’t that just continue in college? The issue is specialization. In college, the student do start to specialize and in order to become really good in one musical genre takes an incredible amount of time and work. My D did classical/choir, MT and acting throughout high school - in school and in the community. I remember going to the first school and thinking that once we sat down and talked I would find out there were ways to do all three…well at least 2. It didn’t happen. In many schools, they will want the kids to specialize. Some teachers will lean towards kids who are going to dedicate their 4 years to classical study for example. They feel the kids will need the time and dedication to advance and have a shot after college.

BUT not all teachers or schools do this. And kids can be successful at these wider option schools. Just be aware that different schools and teachers have different opinions on this. If she is adamant about doing it all (or most of it), perhaps leading with contemporary, and having strong academics, it will narrow your choices (what you want anyway). Other people on the music board can help you with schools.

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What bridgenail said is very true. I have a sophomore looking into colleges for vocal performance. We toured Belmont over Spring break and they said it is very difficult to double major in 4 years. If you are willing to stay an extra year or if you come in with substantial AP/IB credits it can be done. But they said the curriculum for performing arts majors in fairly strict and it can be difficult to work around the rehearsal/private class schedule.
Having a dancer in college, we found that most Performing Arts degrees (BFA/BM) don’t really leave room for a double major. Most who choose to double major enter a BA program. Something to keep in mind is that the BFA/BM programs require fewer academic courses and more performance courses while a BA program requires more academic courses and fewer performance courses.
Best wishes with your search! We are one year behind you.

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Points well taken bridgenail and diglass. I could see her doing a 5-year double degree program, but I think her main struggle right now is thinking about exactly WHAT that performing arts related degree would be IN. Agreed that you can’t do it all, certainly not as a career path. So she loves classical voice (solo and choirs) and piano, she loves MT and drama (less experience, and given what I hear about increasing competitiveness there, hmmm), she loves songwriting and performing her own music on piano, guitar, and with bands. And though an early visit to Berklee has made her rethink an LAC focus, I don’t think she’s willing to give up on a top-notch academic program in social science or humanities yet either.

So it may be that she figures out a true focus during the course of this year as we ramp up the visits and learn more about options. I could see her at a place like USC or NYU in a dual major or even double degree program. Or, I could see her at a place like Brown or Barnard, singing in a great audition choir for pure enjoyment and then patching together whatever worked of private lessons (depending on cost!), songwriting, MT opportunities, and seeing where it takes her - possibly toward a focus/major/grad school, or possibly just towards a happy non-PA career with music and PA always in her life.

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Personally I would not pay for/ or spend the time pursuing a 2nd major if it meant going to school for 5 years. I would look into programs that allow you to get a masters degree in the fifth year, but not a second major.

The only exception would be a 2nd degree that is very pre-professional-- like accounting–one that is absolutely necessary to get a specific job.

For anything else, I would try for a 4 year degree with a minor or two, great EC’s and internship opportunities.

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I see your point about a double major, but the double degree is more what I was referencing. This gets to (what seems to be) the classic quandary for performing arts students, the “back-up plan”. How many PA degree students make a living in MT, or instrumental/vocal performance, how many end up in education, and how many within a relatively short timeframe end up in entirely different careers, whether with further education or not?

Of course trying to do a dual degree I imagine can also be so taxing that it can diminish your focus on your performing area and reduce your chances of success there, so it’s not a perfect solution. Some conservatories seem to encourage the double degree approach in the classical LAC world (Oberlin, Bard, Lawrence U), but we’re less clear on opportunities for this approach combining more contemporary PA (MT, songwriting/vocals, etc). This seems like it would be more possible at places like NYU, USC, Northwestern, UMich … but maybe not really?

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My point is that it is usually not necessary to get a dual degree to have a plan B or a broader educational background outside of MT or VP. Often exposure to another academic focus can be achieved by having a minor in they area, rather than a second major. Couple academic classes with internships in that area, and I think a dual degree is unnecessary.

Since there are masters programs that are doable in a year, I’d much rather put effort, money and time towards a higher degree --achievable in 5 years, rather than a second bachelors degree.

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@uskoolfish - I understand your point about the advantage of a masters degree over two undergrad degrees in five years - however, the difference is the Masters is a very focused degree and, unless, the student plans to pursue two masters degrees then they’ll not have another opportunity to study another field in such depth. My son did take a couple of grad seminars in the field of his second degree (Classics) while at Yale School of Music, but he was really there to study music. On the other hand, he truly got a chance to study Classics as an undergrad while studying for two degrees. Is there any use to his second degree? Yes, it is absolutely useful to his development as an educated adult. Just as it would have been as a sole degree. Is it a backup degree or will it get him a job? There are no plans to use it for that purpose, just as there may not be a direct use for many undergrad degrees. Does it matter that he spent five years as an undergrad? I wish he’d spent longer as there were still so many great classes he didn’t have a chance to take! What’s the hurry to get out of college? Just that they’re not yet earning a living? Yes, we had to help support him for room and board for one more year, but most five year programs do provide financial assistance for the full five years.

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@SpiritManager My D graduated in 4 years with a BM degree in VP and 2 minors–one in the Business of Entertainment Media and Technology and the other in English lit. She was able to take more electives in both areas of concentration than was required to earn each minor.

What she found is that by not declaring the major, she had a lot more flexibility in what courses she could take. And most importantly, she did not have to fulfill a lot of requirements that were needed to get the dual degree. So instead of taking an extra year of language and another math class, etc. – she was able to take more English or business classes. She was also able to keep summers open to do internships.

She did have the option of a 5th year, which would have earned her a BM degree in VP, her 2 minors, plus an MA in Music education.

While I totally agree with you that a well rounded education outside of theatre and music is important, I just think you can achieve the same goal without going a 5th year for a second bachelors degree. If you can go for a second major and still graduate in 4 years, it’s different.

For us–the additional year at school–would have been an unnecessary expense. We did not receive financial did, and while D did get a decent talent scholarship, it would not have been offered for that 5th year. If she reapplied for the masters, she may have gotten a scholarship since masters students apply for FA independently.

My younger D was full pay as an undergrad (BFA studio art) and is continuing this fall at the same school for a masters in art ed. She will be getting the degree in one year and is receiving a $20k scholarship as a grad student.

For us, going for the fifth year as a graduate student saves us a lot of money.

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Great feedback both of you, this is helpful.

Related but different question (let me know it would be better answered as a new thread, that’s fine) is the accessibility of a wide range of performing arts opportunities are the larger schools that have them. NYU, Northwestern, USC, Yale, even Brown (on the private side) and UMich, UNC, UIBloomington (on the public side) all appear to have wonderfully broad and deep music and performing arts opportunities. BUT, is a student in a specific program (say vocal performance) or even in a non-PA major still able to participate (beyond the question of finding the time) in that wealth of opportunities, e.g. participate in musicals, sing in choirs, etc OR are the schools-within-schools so focused on their core students that the strength and diversity of programs does not automatically translate into opportunities?

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@iasetter That differs from school to school and even major to major within the same school. Some allow non-majors to audition and some don’t.

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Yes, it differs from school to school and must be researched carefully.

I can speak about NYU, since both D’s attended. Older D was a VP major in Steinhardt and earned a BM degree. As a Vocal performance major, her voice teacher was full time tenured faculty–the best in the school (Steinhardt).

Other music majors and non-majors can take voice lessons, but they will be taught by adjuncts or grad students. So when my art major D took voice lessons, she had (excellent) grad students teach her.

The shows that VP student D was cast were for undergrad and grad VP students only. They had the biggest budget of any musicals/ operas in Steinhardt and were in NYU’s main theatre.

Other shows were produced in Steinhardt and CAS that had open calls. Some choirs are open to all students, others were for VP students only.

There are music minors, but they’re classes are separate and it does not open doors for programs set up for majors only.

As for Tisch, it is a seperate entity and its studio classes are also for majors only. The only exception are classes that are offered through Tisch’s Open Arts program. Students from all schools can take these classes.

Like Steinhardt, there are minors that are available, but classes for minors (at least in performance) are separate from classes for BFA majors at Tisch.

Older D was able to take a lot of great classes for her minor in the Business of Entertainment, Media and Technology. It has requirements and electives through Steinhardt, Tisch and Stern. That program is offered as an undergraduate minor or an MBA concentration.

Younger D is a studio art major, but she is also a singer. Instead of pursuing another major or minor, she took all her extra elective credits in private voice lessons and stage makeup classes through Tisch open arts. She is graduating in Jess than 2 weeks with her BFA, and will get her MA in art education by next June.

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It does depend on school. But I know that IU Bloomington and most likely Michigan, Northwestern and USC would offer very little opportunity to a non-performance major in the main productions (student led productions would be different). Usually these schools have one or two all school choirs available to non-music majors. At many of these schools you are in a program (VP or MT - and they are separate). The students in the programs will be favored for a number of reasons. So it is hard or near impossible to participate if you aren’t in the particular program/conservatory. Some teachers in VP for example will discourage or straight out not allow a VP student to audition for MT. This happened to my D. She was allowed to audition for plays but then could never accept a role since she was always cast in an opera. VP was her main focus so that dictated most of her schedule. This is something that most parents/students looking at school underestimate. In high school you choose your after school activities. In college in a music program your evenings will be scheduled for you! With rehearsals and studio classes in the evening my D could not accept any theatre roles. So if a student wants to explore they would be better to look at smaller LACs that do not have the walls bx programs. Conservatories and many of the big Us with conservatories will have these walls and limited opportunities for non-music majors. As mentioned earlier, a school like St. Olaf will not have these walls. IU definitely does. It is best to look school by school on what the opportunities truly are.

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And another thing to consider is that while most VP students will almost exclusively study classical voice, there are exceptions.

At NYU Steinhardt, d was able to chose between MT or classical concentration and audition accordingly. Same voice teachers ( classically based), but different classes in many cases. And whereas the repertoire for MT students was 75% MT, there was still a requirement to study art songs and classical pieces as well. And the emphasis for MT selections are classical MT, pre- 1990’s–singing with a mixed voice vs belting.

But that was still a lot more MT, than most VP students are exposed to.

I would say that was the biggest surprise for many students I know. They chose to study music with voice as a concentration because they loved choir and being in their high school musicals. Many chose to be music Ed majors, but didn’t realize with voice as their concentration, but didn’t realize that they would be trained in classical voice, and in many cases MT was not taught.