Convince me that Harvard is worth it

Colleges & Universities A-Z Harvard University
1

<p>In applying to the Ivies, I have decided to apply to Yale, Princeton, Dartmouth and Brown.</p>

<p>For better or for worse, I have crossed off Penn, Cornell, and Columbia.</p>

<p>However, Harvard lays in the middle zone. Since you all love it, here are my concerns (I don’t dislike Harvard, I just don’t like it AS much as the others on my list with similar or easier admissions).</p>

<p>1.) Size: Harvard seems a little large and graduate focuses. While 6-7,000 undergrads seems reasonable, having almost twice as many graduate students seems that it will create an environment where undergrads are lost as the minority in a large system.</p>

<p>2.) Campus: While Harvard is in a nice balance between downtown Boston and the suburbs, it seems that the campus is not as contained and seeps out into Cambridge, therefore becoming spread out. Also, the large spaces didn’t give a feeling of intimacy or home (it may have been because it was early spring when I visited and the leaves were all off the trees).</p>

<p>3.) Professors: With so many graduate students, it feels like undergrads won’t get the attention that they may at other schools, and while their are research opportunities, they may not be very accesable to undergrads.</p>

<p>4.) Atmosphere: While most students go their for the right reasons, there may be a significant number who attend because it is “Harvard.” If large enough, this could cloud the motivations of many students and the general feeling of the school.</p>

<p>While I respect Harvard and would love the opportunity to go their, I can see that if I got in and could afford it, that I would not choose it over other schools that I would then likely get in to.</p>

<p>Please, respond and prove me wrong. Sway my position. Also, use this as an area to reassure yourself (or prove yourself wrong) on why you want to attend Harvard.</p>

2

<p>My daughter is an undergrad at Harvard, and this is what I can offer:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I worried about this too, but it seems not to be an issue. There is plenty of focus on undergrad education at Harvard. Most of the undergrads seem to be enjoying themselves a lot.</p></li>
<li><p>This is strictly a personal preference. If you don't like the layout of the H campus there is nothing anyone can do about it.</p></li>
<li><p>So far my D's classes have ranged have ranged in size from ~50 to 7. All have been taught my professors, not grad students. The professors all offer regular office hours for individual attention. The grad students are there to help with the small study sections.</p></li>
<li><p>I can't say - people don't walk around with their motivations on their foreheads. Either they are decent people worth knowing or not, regardless of why they applied. And so far she is very impressed and pleased with nearly all of the people she has met at H.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Having said all that, I can't convince you that Harvard is worth it. Everyone is different. The only one who can convince you is you. (In fact, I'm not sure what "worth it" means in this context. Worth what?)</p>

3

<p>judging from how u crossed off columbia, penn, and kept pton, dartmouth brown, im guessing you dont want to be in a city? seems like harvard aint the place for you, and its the name thats forcing you to consider it.</p>

4

<p>Not exactly.</p>

<p>Columbia was too urban for me. Coming from a relatively small city <35,000, it would be too much of a transition. Harvard is not in downtown Boston, and while Harvard defines Cambridge, Manhattan defines Columbia.</p>

<p>Penn just never really apealed to me. It was more the size, graduate/preprofessional attitude, and other various traits. This is one school that I am afraid that I am rejecting based on inaccurate information, and I will try to make sure that I am not making a catostrophic mistake.</p>

<p>It isn't Harvard's name, but its reputation that keeps me holding on. Considered by many informed (not the general public) people to be the best university in the nation and perhaps the world, I am reluctant to dismiss it as less than Dartmouth or Brown without strong, suportive evidence.</p>

5

<p>But lets be real, ultimately, its whether or not where worth it to harvard .. oh well.</p>

6

<p>actually there is evidence to suggest that harvard does not pay as much attention to its undergrads as it could, relying on its reputation to bring in students. in recent years, it could be argued that yale is eclipsing harvard. personally, neither has a good engineering program, making stanford my dream school of choice.</p>

7

<p>Harvard will give you the best financial aid of the top schools, if money is an issue. You will get personal attention if you ask for it. I suspect a lot of students come hoping to major in a science field and end up with humanities/social science majors, because the latter are more easily attainable with less professorial attention and handholding. If you need personal attention in the sciences go to a liberal arts school, not Harvard. Yale is no better as far as giving personal attention in the sciences.</p>

8

<p>For #2, you know that all freshmen live on the yard, really close to the academic buildings? Some of the houses for upperclassmen are spread out, but other than that, everything is pretty concentrated.</p>

9

<p>Hey if you don't wanna go to H i'll be happy to take your place, you are acting as though if you applied you would positively get in. how arrogant</p>

10

<p>nickelby i dont wanna give u any advice just some caution...you obviously have high hopes to attend an ivy...i dont think you should necessarily cross off schools...i can understand u dont want to be in columbia...but take a closer look at penn and cornell...</p>

<p>ivy's are completely unpredictable...just keep your options open...i know a girl who got 1600 SATs and great grades and ECs...she only applied to harvard and princeton...got rejected from both and ended up going to Wash U...she could definitely have gotten into some other Ivys...</p>

<p>apply to harvard...it wont hurt u...its on the common app anyway...decide what school u want to go to AFTER u kno the decisions</p>

11

<p>Nickleby- I'm an undergrad at Harvard right now, and I have to say that coreur's answers to your concerns pretty much hit the nail on the head. So I'll just embellish a bit from a student's standpoint. First, let me tell you, or rather warn you, that Harvard is not the place for everyone. I am not being arrogant- there are students far more intelligent than I am that would not thrive here. Harvard is best for a certain type of student. If you need to constantly have one-on-one interaction with a professor, if you thrive when teaching is tailored to your needs, this may not be the place for you. Don't get me wrong; there are plenty of opportunities to interact with professors and every large lecture breaks up into smaller discussion sections. Nevertheless the most successful students here tend to be self-actualized. If you need help, no one will give it to you, you must know yourself well enough to seek it out. Your concern about Harvard's size, especially in respect to its large graduate population, can be a stregnth or a weakness, also depending upon the type of student you are. If you feel you need to be the center of the university's attention, Harvard may not be your best choice. On the other hand, the graduate schools give the undergrads at the College a unique opportunity to interact and learn with graduate students, in graduate courses. Personally, I like that fact that I meet and can talk with graduate students relatively easily, because I'm not sure what I want to major in, let alone do when I graduate. On the other hand, students here find that the College is fairly well self-contained socially. Undergrads are not lost in the larger system simply because their is a smaller system that works exclusively for them. Lastly, I love the Harvard campus, even though this is a matter of personal preference. Yes, it tends to get cold, but all of the facilities that I need tend to be very close to my dorm. On the other hand, Boston is just a five minute T ride away. In my opinion, the perfect balance. Again, Harvard is not right for everyone, but I would encourage you to make your decision with as unbiased an opinion, of all the schools you are looking at, as possible.</p>

12

<p>i agree with Kerron, none of the Ivy's will try to convince you.</p>

<p>But to be hones that's kind of their downside, knowing that none of the Ivy's really "need" you or want you.</p>

13

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<p>LOL That is SOOOOO true. I remember last year, I got a letter in the mail from Princeton, likely because of the whole PSAT bubble thing. This letter came MONTHS after the other college letters I got, and said, for all intents and purposes "You seem like you might have a prayer ... So apply ... or don't - we don't really care. If you don't, we're sure someone else will." I don't remember the letter word for word, obviously, but that's pretty much what they meant and that's the vibe I got from it. I thought it was pretty funny. </p>

<p>It was a pretty far cry from the letters that came from other schools that pled their cases and begged and extended deadlines and waived fees and stuff so I'd apply ... you know, schools that actually did "want" me and appreciate me ... </p>

<p>Anyway back on topic ... it's true that none of the Ivies will really try to convince anyone ... and if you want to be chased after or seen as the "best," Harvard (or the rest) aren't for you ... but from the stats I've seen on these boards, all of you can look forward to star treatment from most other schools. Especially as the deadlines get closer, you'll all be pleasantly surprised by the crazy things that show up in the mailbox from non-Ivies. They'll basically hand you acceptance (and lots of other perks) on a silver platter, so please remember not to overlook anyplace just because it's not Ivy League!!! </p>

<p>But you all are smart, and I bet you didn't need me to tell you that ... ;)</p>

14

<p>awwwww, thats so sweet caramel, lol, i guess the MAIN reason people even wanna go to an ivy is because of the name. but hey even if i dont get into harvard, im gonna still be ok i gotta list of really kool safeties</p>

15

<p>haha yea i love schools like UT-Dallas that are like, "we'll PAY you to come", and USC, which was like last month, "we know you didnt mail in ur information form, but PLEASE consider us cuz we're not giving up." and then theres harvard admissions, which is like we're not gonna spend money to add color and graphics to our publications cuz we know ur gonna apply anyway.</p>

<p>and as for arrogance, well, assuming you can get into harvard you could prolly get into yale, pton, and stanford as well. so arguing about why to go to harvard isnt as arrogant as you may think, since theres still tough decisions to be made.</p>

16

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<p>Well, maybe yes and maybe no. My daughter was accepted at Harvard, Stanford, and MIT but wait-listed at Princeton and rejected at Yale. So getting into Harvard does not guarantee you'll be getting into all the others.</p>

17

<p>i didnt actually mean that you would get into all, but rather, more than one. so theres still a choice. sorry i shoulda worded that better.</p>

<p>congrats on ur daughter's acceptances. just wondering, did she have a perfect gpa? and if not, did she have some sort of nationally recognized award to make up for it?</p>

18

<p>Kerron^(69 ,</p>

<p>I hope you don't believe that I think that I will get in to Harvard. On the contrary, I believe that my chances are very slim. However, so are the chances of many applicants each year. If I don't get in, or decided not to apply, then the above will be a moot point. The reason that I ask the questions is so that I can decide if I would accept a Harvard acceptance (It seems hard to turn down). If not, then there is no reason on applying.</p>

<p>Once again, I apologize to anyone whom I have offended by any unintentional acts of arrogance.</p>

19

<p>nickelby, that was very tactful.</p>

20

<p>Getting back to the question of the OP, I think one way of looking at the situation is to ask yourself whether you would really be able to walk away from a Harvard admission letter (should you get one) with peace of mind. Maybe you would, maybe you wouldn't, but I think that's the real way of looking at the situation. </p>

<p>The way I see it is you don't ever want to be putting yourself in a position where you'd be asking yourself 'what if' for the rest of your life. 'What if' is a question that will gnaw at your psyche, and possibly destroy it. You don't want to get admitted to Harvard, turn it down, and then 20 years later, be asking yourself what would have happened had you taken it. </p>

<p>Let me give you an example. Let's say that the Boston Red Sox were to give me a tryout to be their next pitcher. Would I turn it down? I would not. I would not, even knowing that I would probably make a complete fool out of myself during the tryout, and I'd probably be laughed at and thrown out of the ballpark. I would go anyway, because I know that if I didn't go, then for the rest of my life, I would always be asking myself 'what if I had gone'. So I would go, and I would probably fail miserably and completely embarrass myself. But at least I would then know what would have happened, so I'd be able to sleep at night. </p>

<p>Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that you should automatically pick Harvard or that Harvard is automatically the best school for you or anybody else. I am saying that you should be able to make a decision to turn down Harvard (should you get the chance to make that decision) with a clear conscience. Would you be able to sleep at night when you're older knowing that you turned down Harvard? If you think you can, then, fair enough, you can turn down Harvard with a clean conscience. But if you don't think you can, then I think that's a pretty good reason to take the offer.</p>