Cookie-Cutter Extracurriculars

<p>Sports, like any other EC, can be anywhere along the spectrum from very time consuming to minimal. You hope the admissions folks can sort through which students sank a ton of time into a sport, thus limiting the time available for other ECs.</p>

<p>My son (current Junior) puts about 500-600 hours a year into baseball with close to a hundred games and nearly 200 practices a year. With 1300 students in his Senior class, making the varsity baseball team is highly competitive. Tack on 10 APs during high school and the time gets chewed up in a hurry. He certainly could fit other stuff in, but he hasn't chosen to and I have not pushed it.</p>

<p>When it comes time to send in applications next fall he'll be able to talk about baseball in an interesting and passionate way and we'll hope the folks at Florida like what they see. But, in the end, he plays baseball because he loves it and not for the application resume. Hopefully that's just a bonus.</p>

<p>Even with the best time management skills, a student can't be in two places at once. Recitals, concerts, competitions, games, and meets overlap. If you have a school that is flexible, count yourself lucky. Add non-school commitments to the mix and it becomes impossible in most cases. Conservatory level musicians are expected to devote three hours a day to their instrument. True athletes the same. Top students the same. Nine hours of dedicated after school effort may be possible for some, but cloning has yet to be perfected so a kid can be in the orchestra performance and the soccer tournament and the science fair at the same time.</p>

<p>I've read all the posts on this thread and it's been very enlightening. </p>

<p>I've had some of the same issues with my children as well. We tried to give our kids a lot of different experiences when they were youngsters, and as they got older, they naturally gravitated to the activities they enjoyed the most. It's hard to watch them give up some things, but in the end, it seems like they've made the right decisions for themselves.</p>

<p>Gosh, I'm glad my d's large HS is forgiving. Both the coach and the music teacher have allowed her to skip a class or or a practice without penalty. Thank goodness that concerts and races were never scheduled on the same day. I really don't know how she would choose.</p>

<p>A few observations from reading this thread:</p>

<p>I have never heard the term "playing an instrument 'competitively,'" though I of course know what you mean. I've just always thought that was a sports thing. (And I'm a musician.)</p>

<p>High school athletes used to play one sport, or perhaps two. Now they are all-season athletes, going from one intensive season to another (and sometimes they overlap.) This leaves no time for anything else, and can result in stress injuries to growing bodies.</p>

<p>Some young people can manage to do both sports and music at a high level, if they are "natural" at one or both. I've seen kids combine theater and soccer or basketball. Now "high level" to me doesn't necessarily mean they will major in theater or get an athletic scholarship, but if they are good at something, why give it up if they can manage to do both? Having reached reasonable competence, this is something they enjoy and may want to continue in college (or beyond) at some level.</p>

<p>OTOH, when theater and/or sports are so time-consuming that they interfere with ACADEMICS, that's when it's time to call a timeout. I have seen kids so consumed with theater (and they are good but not star quality) that their grades suffer, and they're not even taking the most difficult courses.</p>

<p>So...balance in all things, I guess. Sometimes parents have to be the gatekeeper for these overachievers.</p>

<p>And as far as my ECs...besides piano-playing, I have the usual social/community things, but recently I took up the flute again after not having played it since HS, pretty much. I am so glad I learned the fingerings when I was young! It was not too difficult to get my facility back, and I am having so much fun!</p>

<p>Actually, the concept of a "competitive" music program is one about which some concerned parents have complained, but to no avail. The emphasis is placed on competition more than on the exposure to the enriching experience of music. Consequently, the dabblers and explorers feel the program is not for them--it's for the "crazies".</p>

<p>Individually, competition means working one's way up to the higher level school bands and ensembles, and then also being accepted to the various regional and state-level groups. Corporately, it means achieving the highest honors at concert and jazz band festivals, and being chosen for special national recognition (for ex. there's some event in Indiana to which only 16 or so of the best high school bands are invited.)</p>

<p>So, the casual or unskilled musician finds himself treated badly enough that he quits the program.</p>

<p>


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<p>I got caught :( English is my second language, as visible from my never ending syntax errors.
I am glad you were still able to "understand" me :)
I am talking about an involvement that requires a few hours of practice a day. Being on a major concerto level as a soloist as opposed to playing in a school band.</p>

<p>The irony is that my younger son's main activity is playing the violin. He's in two school orchestra and has private lessons. However, he's really only a workmanlike player. His only other activity is Science Olympiad for which he also has no particular talent. I keep thinking what are the colleges going to think, but he's pretty stubborn. Not much hope of getting him to do anything else.</p>

<p>I agree with whomever said it is difficult to do HIGH level sports AND HIGH level music. A big part of even being able to participate depends on your HS and how they set things up and support the kids.</p>

<p>Several of my Ds friends had to decide between going the varsity bball track (including bball training class period) OR music...impossible to do both because of the way the school allowed things to be set up.</p>

<p>My DD went to a school that wanted every one to do some level of sports and some level of arts, no need to be on a travel team to do varsity, though the strongest teams always had an elite athelete or two. My D is truly an athlete, but she got to dance all through HS. She did not have the dedication and outside lessons of the gifted, serious girls, but she worked her way up to their group for school performances and she had fun. Those same girls were no where near her level at their sport, but they played on varsity, were important members of the team and they had fun.</p>

<p>It was a very small school and it was the schools philosophy; every time I hear about schools that are less open-minded in their thinking I am glad my sporty DD has dances, potted, photographed, acted, etc. all whilst being a three sport athlete on high performing teams, varsity captain, and played at a elite level herself.</p>

<p>Not only does she still play her sport, she has also done some artsy classes and kept going with those hobbies, it seems a healthy way to approach things.</p>

<p>Many of the kids on CC tend to be more leaning towards the math/science ends of the spectrum. Though I do activities similar to what was mentioned by soozievt, it might be difficult for someone who traditionally excels in fields that gear towards logic/etc to excel in an activity that challenges your social/speaking skills. </p>

<p>Yes, many of the activities look similar. But I think the reason is that we don't know anyone from CC in reality. It's hard to judge how involved/interesting a club is without knowing more than "Debate Team" or something. Either way, these activities that seem to be 'cookie-cutter' to the OP can really help a student stand out if they win awards..and make something truly interesting out of these activities. Not every student has incredible opportunities. But, if making the most of what is at a school/community seems to be the key regardless of how superficially cookie-cutter these activities seem</p>

<p>"The irony is that my younger son's main activity is playing the violin. He's in two school orchestra and has private lessons. However, he's really only a workmanlike player. His only other activity is Science Olympiad for which he also has no particular talent.:</p>

<p>Sounds like he's having fun and is involved, so I can't think of any reason for him to do anything else unless he develops an interest in something else.</p>

<p>Of course, most activities are cookie cutter. That's why when there is a break from the usual, it is considered out of ordinary! The push to make kids extraordinary in the activities that are supposed to be their fun time, their break from school is really a problem in my book. I say this even as a mom who got caught up in it, as my two older kids really got themselves in competitive situations in what was originally was supposed to truly extracurricular. I've avoided this with the younger ones, because it really is difficult to disentangle once you go that route. You see, the kids really want it too as it becomes their lives. They make friends with others in the same groups and want to continue if they are doing very well. </p>

<p>It's hard not to get caught this way when your kids truly excel in these pasttimes. There really is no easy answer to this one. But be aware that in the world of college EC ratings, the level that you have to be in oder to get more than a 3 on a 5 point scale is really waaaay up there. They have concert masters and state champions up the whazoo at the top schools. What it comes down to , is whether they could use someone like your kid and if he is pursuing that sport or that activity in college. They have a good idea from the profile and essays if that is the case. Of course for sports, you have to get by the coach and on his list, no small doing. And unless the sport is important to that college, it isn't going to make a huge impact anyways. </p>

<p>So many kids and parents get disappointed when they realize all those years of piano, violin, dance, softball, basketball, football, don't mean a danged thing to the college adcoms. It fills the EC page just like a kid who didn't spend nearly the time on those activities. That's another reason to be sure that your child is enjoying the activities and that they are not becoming a burden and unrealistic expectation for getting into a top school.</p>

<p>Very well said, cpt.</p>

<p>Well, I don't know that it is necessarily so bad to be competitive. For some activities, the competition <em>is</em> the fun, or part of it. Doesn't have to be either/or. My children both competed at their e.c.'s for all the years of their involvement, and enjoyed them to the max. D#1 is still doing both of her own high-level e.c.'s, in college, while she made no statements to that effect on her apps.</p>

<p>I am glad I did not interfere by discouraging these pursuits. I could never have envisioned when they began these, that these would be college entrance advantages, but clearly they were, for both of them. But more importantly to me, the lessons they have learned, and the cultural enrichment gained, have enormously benefited them in many ways involving character and self-awareness.</p>

<p>I think it is just the wording"competitive" that does not go very well with music:)</p>

<p>As much as I tried to get my DDs interested in publishing books of Haiku on hand made paper and walking across the USA to raise awareness of the difficulties of being left-handed, they still love soccer and horses and want to spend their time only there. sigh...Where did I go wrong??</p>

<p>I know what you mean. My son plays piano and trumpet. Why not didgeridoo? He likes baseball and tennis, and he won't even try fencing.</p>

<p>Too bad you don't live on the east coast, Midwest mom. I happen to be a world famous didgeridoo player. For a reasonable consulting fee, I would have taken on your son as a student & guided him through the college application process. My premium service also teaches clap sticks and will help your son design an Intel project on the sound waves produced by these instruments. My deluxe service includes a cultural/humanitarian mission to Australia where he would build homes for the indigenous people by day and perfect his didgeridoo technique by night.</p>

<p>Sadly your son's choice of piano and trumpet are just so Western, so parochial.</p>

<p>Midwestmom isn't it a shame...with so many really fabulous and rare ECs out there our children insist on doing the mundane. Perhaps your S could simultaneously play the trumpet and the piano while bouncing a tennis ball on a racket hmmmmmm?? My DDs are working out a routine where they pass a soccer ball back and forth between horses running at top speed but I am afraid that unless they incorporate some capoeira into it adcoms will determine it to be as "western and parochial" as stickershock has found your son's ecs. </p>

<p>BTW sticker why no offer to coach my kids? could it be that you think girls can't do science projects or build homes...methinks I smell a bit of western sexism. ;)</p>

<p>LOL Sticker Shock :D</p>