<p>So I've heard that the core curriculum is extremely hard to complete - is it really? I don't think it would be any more difficult than other universities' cores. </p>
<p>Also, for a Fordham student or someone who just knows, can you use core requirements to help with your major?</p>
<p>Apologies if this has been asked before. Thanks!</p>
<p>Its not hard to complete. Its very easy to complete. It just takes time, particularly if you don’t have any AP courses to help. AP courses with sufficient grades can replace some of the core, usually the second round in sophomore year. Relax, the core is what makes Fordham special and gives you an extremely well rounded education. It also introduces you to programs and professors and making new friends. Everyone does it so you just chill and enjoy the ride. They DO count towards your major, but its somewhat complicated. So see your advisor when you get to Fordham.</p>
<p>Many students take only core Freshman year. Some can test out on foreign language. Sophomore year is a mix of core and starting your major. Junior year is either hard core major or double major work or going overseas for a semester. Senior year is wrapping everything up, including any straggling core requirements, finishing major requirements and applying to grad schools and professional schools or getting that all important paid internship leading to a career.</p>
<p>I highly disagree with ghostbuster. As of the class of 2013 and all subsequent classes it is extremely hard to complete. It has over 20 courses and will take most students into their junior year to finish. AP courses in general do not count towards the core any longer except for those in language. A few courses can count towards your major which is good.
Ghostbuster, I’m not sure where you got this information, perhaps if you know people at Fordham you are referring to the old core, but I assure you it IS difficult, lengthy and hard to complete. They have changed all the requirements and made the entire process upsettingly complicated.</p>
<p>NYC…you are a freshmen. The word “hard” to me means both in terms of how hard the classes are and whether people drop off the log and dont finish. NEITHER IS TRUE AT FORDHAM. The core classes are “challenging” and they will take upwards of 3-4 semesters to complete, though you have four years to get it done. I know. My D is a JUNIOR at Fordham. The new core has some changes but they werent significantly more difficult and not significantly more difficult to complete in four years. </p>
<p>the point I am making is you wont see a bunch of kids dropping out for inability to do the core. The kids who drop out do so for partying and perhaps finances and perhaps immaturity. But it has little or nothing to do with the difficulty of the core. Challenging? Yes, its supposed to challenge you. But not hard to complete in two years and you will have other chances to stuff a class in a semester Junior and Senior year. </p>
<p>its a tad more complicated but not horrific. The OP was wondering if people are unable to finish the core and if it interferes with major work and the answer is NO. the core was strengthened. </p>
<p>If you take a full load of 5 classes you will get it done. And it does count towards your major. The only thing is you may have FEWER electives to pick as Juniors and Seniors. Whoopdie do.</p>
<p>Fordham does not fully explain the new core until students arrive. They have been testing new courses on us, actually. I did come in with high AP scores (4’s and 5’s) and they were not accepted towards the core. Having a daughter who is a junior means you know very LITTLE about the new core curriculum. I’ve seen the old core, and came to the school on the assumption I would be completing the old core, it is revolutionarily different form the new core. </p>
<p>I do not think the OP was asking in terms of dropping out of school, but rather in terms of what her life at Fordham would be like compared to other schools with less overwhelming core curriculums.
I love this school, but I already will have to take summer courses and pay additional money to complete all the courses I need because of this core despite taking a full course load. It is not a question of electives for me nor for a good number of students, it is a question of having to take additional courses because certain majors require a more extensive amount than just the regular 8 or 9. </p>
<p>I respect that having children at the school means you know a lot about it. In the long run I’m sure you have very good insights because you’ve been familiar with it for a period of time. That said, you have not had experience with any of the changes implemented starting with the class of 2013, like the core, AP policy, campus policies, EP courses, and a number of other changes the school is testing out.</p>
<p>Agreed. I am aware they changed it. I was looking at that closely and know people involved in it. Your AP scores, like my D’s, will be counted depending on the courses and your major, mostly in sophomore year. My D got some credit. Princeton gives NO CREDIT for AP’s so count your blessings. The hardest colleges often don’t give AP credits any value, and its mostly the state schools which do. I know this for a fact with friends of ours at state colleges. </p>
<p>They are making changes, agreed. They have a new Chief Academic Officer, whom I know. But all with an eye towards making it better, not harder to graduate. The LAST thing Fordham wants is to put up another hurdle to graduate ontime. They are very conscious of how that affects ratings and rankings and finances. You will get your core done most likely in two years with maybe one or two courses spilling over into the electives for Junior and Senior year. Its not a problem. Otherwise they would be beseiged with complaints from paying parents and students alike and a line would be formed outside McShane’s office if people were having difficulty getting it done. </p>
<p>Some schools have no core at all and students delve into whatever they want (Brown) or triple major from Freshman year on (WashU St. Louis). That isnt Fordham. </p>
<p>If you have issues, then I suggest politely that you take them up with the appropriate personnel at Fordham and/or join a Committee with the administration and see if you can improve things. </p>
<p>I am no expert on the new core. Not saying that. But I wanted the OP to understand that perhaps what they heard about “being hard to finish” was an exaggeration and needed clarification. Its not hard to finish. They are challenging and insightful courses meant to stimulate thought and develop minds and broaden perspectives, and there are enough courses it will take most 2 years to get done, but some a bit less if they have enough of the RELEVANT AP courses and scored high enough on AP exams. My D was thankfullly in that category. Its the old core, but its not that different. In some cases they replaced one option with another, essentially a wash, not an add on. </p>
<p>Fordham is an academic school and that is a good thing, it seems to me. Just saying…</p>
<p>Peace.</p>
<p>In my opinion, the Fordham Core is not quite as easy to complete as Ghostbuster claims, yet not as much of burden as NYC2013 portrays it to be. </p>
<p>For a student who places into the introductory language level, is required to take two levels of composition (because of low standardized test scores), and has few, if any AP or IB credits, the core could be very challenging to complete. It would most likely take a full two years in addition to the capstone courses only offered junior and senior year. </p>
<p>However, I’ve met many students who place into exit level or other high level language courses, are exempt from composition classes, and enter with several APs. These students find that they have a good amount of flexibility regarding the core and can often begin taking classes for their major during freshman year. In fact, my one friend completed all but the capstone requirements in her first semester. </p>
<p>Fordham’s student body spans a wide range of academic skill. The core requirements are meant to be unavoidable for those students at the lower end of this spectrum so that they are fully prepared to freely choose their remaining courses at Fordham. However, for those students who are more academically talented, only the most critical requirements are unavoidable so that Fordham can uphold it’s mission of educating well-rounded students. </p>
<p>Here is a link to Fordham’s AP credit policy so you can see from exactly what you may be exempt: [Advanced</a> Placement – Fordham University](<a href=“http://69.7.74.46/section5/section67/section72/index.html]Advanced”>http://69.7.74.46/section5/section67/section72/index.html)</p>
<p>Also, here is a link to the new core: [The</a> New Core: An Overview](<a href=“http://www.fordham.edu/academics/office_of_research/research_centers__in/center_for_teaching_/the_new_core_72543.asp]The”>http://www.fordham.edu/academics/office_of_research/research_centers__in/center_for_teaching_/the_new_core_72543.asp)</p>
<p>It seems that while some of the basic classes (like composition) are a drag, many students really enjoy the more thought provoking classes and are thankful that Fordham required them.</p>
<p>Yenrod we are on the same page and you essentially reiterated what I said. Perhaps I wasnt quite as clear as you. I didnt say it could be done in less than two years by everyone, but only by a very few who had the requisite 5’s on the RELEVANT AP exams. And that is most certainly rare. It does take about two years, agreed. Never disagreed with that position. It took pretty much two years under the old core. The faculty was well aware of how long it takes, when they voted to make the changes. The faculty was deeply involved in the processs, I can assure you. And for some, even those with 7,8,9 AP courses under their belt, they may have one or two straggler core classes to complete Junior or Senior year…no big deal…they file under electives. That is all. </p>
<p>Is it more than at many colleges? Yes. Without a doubt. Some will balk and bolt. So be it. Its put out there for all to see before they sign up. Some want more freedom. Whatever. </p>
<p>But its not something that affects when people graduate on the normal level of scholarship. Most Fordham kids finish within 4 years. Some may take longer for various reasons, including finances, going abroad for a full year, personal reasons, repeating courses they failed, changing majors, on and on. But the core is not an impediment to graduating on time in the ordinary course of things, which I think the OP was driving at in his/her question. </p>
<p>NYC2013 will find out next year when his/her AP courses kick in and sees its not as bad as it seems. </p>
<p>My D tested out of foreign language but still took upper division courses as a freshmen for electives and having fun and exploring whether to major/double major in a language. That all changed when something else came along that was more interesting and perhaps a better career path…and an honors curriculum. </p>
<p>I am one who applauds Fordham’s core requirements. There are some college rating books on the shelf that also praise it.</p>
<p>I’m a little concerned about how the core curriculum and pre-med classes mesh. Here is Fordham’s example of a typical pre-med schedule incorporating the core classes.
[Undergraduate</a> Sequence of Study](<a href=“http://www.fordham.edu/academics/programs_at_fordham_/biological_sciences/undergraduate_progra/undergraduate_sequen_28910.asp]Undergraduate”>http://www.fordham.edu/academics/programs_at_fordham_/biological_sciences/undergraduate_progra/undergraduate_sequen_28910.asp)
It seems as though freshmen need to complete 20-18 hours a semester for the first two years. One of the lovely advantages of attending Fordham is the ability to explore New York and I wonder if that is even possible the with classes that will last from 9-5 daily?
I am thinking that for my daughter at least, she would need to take a fifth year to complete her degree or else she would need to change her major to a more general liberal arts degree.</p>
<p>Oh! Well I can give you a student perspective on this. Courses are typically an hour and fifteen minutes long and meet twice a week. With more science classes, your daughter would spend more time in the class room, but I’ve never heard of a 9-5 school day no matter what major. Homework loads can depend on the teacher, but even if you figure a student spending as much time on homework as in class (which is rare), it still leaves plenty of time for exploring. =]</p>
<p>As to the comments on the core, everyone has a distinct opinion. As a student, although I’ve found them interesting, I’ve found the number of them restrictive compared to other schools. Considering that I am double majoring and hoping to get graduate work in before I leave Fordham it has been a problem. Unless the students you (collectively) reference knowing are in my class, their opinions of the core are likely not accurate since they are not dealing with it.
Also, I’m not sure how “involved” teachers were as most are not even aware of what the requirements are. Now as my class is registering for exams it’s coming to light that they don’t even have all our required courses designed yet, only names for hypothetical classes. The information on the official website is also not specific enough to explain all aspects of the new core, I’ve tried in vain to work off what is there.</p>
<p>nyc2013 - That is good to hear! I read about the intense hours involved from “The Ram Online”, 2/13/08 - [The</a> Ram - Pre-Meds Struggle With Scheduling](<a href=“http://www.theramonline.com/2.12149/pre-meds-struggle-with-scheduling-1.1657014]The”>http://www.theramonline.com/2.12149/pre-meds-struggle-with-scheduling-1.1657014)
Pre-Meds Struggle With Scheduling - News: In addition to classes, pre-med students also have lab schedules they must work around. “Furthermore, we don’t get the block whereby students aren’t supposed to have class - instead we have lab,” Nayer said. “Having two four hour labs really screws up your schedule. Most pre med students will go from 8:30-5:00 without a break because of lab.” This was a couple of years ago - so hopefully they have changed things for biology majors. Thanks for the reply!</p>
<p>nyc2013, yeah the students I referenced are in the class of 2013, as am I.</p>
<p>Regarding pre-med: I have another friend (also 2013 haha) who is also in honors. While her schedule is packed and she frequently spends more time on homework than in class, she still finds time to enjoy the city. We often do things on the weekends in Manhattan with her.</p>
<p>Pre-med is demanding, especially coupled with Fordham’s core. Many students complain because second majors, study abroad, and electives are all difficult if not nearly impossible to incorporate into their curriculums. But, there are adjustments to the core designed so that students can complete a degree in four years (and still enjoy college too :)) For example, I believe the four-semester (or exit level placement) language requirement is waived for science majors.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your input - it’s been really, really helpful to see all the different opinions. </p>
<p>Yenrod brings up my major point. I’d definitely be interested in studying abroad, possible double-majoring, and I do want to take a few classes outside those for my major. How difficult would that be if I’m attending Fordham? Also, I’ll have taken 9 AP tests within the 4/5 range by the time I’ve graduated. Will these count toward the core? It says so for nearly all of them on the Fordham website, but I’d like to know if it’s outdated or not. </p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>likeyourstyle, are you science major? If not, I think you should be able to study abroad, double major, and take a few classes outside of your major. Especially with 9 APs, you will have a lot more flexibility (that list was just updated for 2009-2010, so there will be few, if any changes for next year). </p>
<p>The core curriculum is not meant to prevent students from pursuing their academic goals. And, for what seems to be the majority of students who effectively manage their academics, it’s not a prohibitive hindrance.</p>
<p>The list there is outdated. I scored 4’s/5’s on some of the tests it says count towards the core yet was told by the the Dean here they no longer count. If you come to an admitted student day you should ask specifically which of your AP’s will count and for what so you don’t get surprised like I did.</p>
<p>Great point to bring up at Admitted day re AP classes…Hate those kind of surprises!!!</p>
<p>I dont know if they have new rules about counting AP’s towards the core. The reason schools dont like to count them is because they deplete away from filling classes for professors and its also well known that AP’s are watered down now and most colleges like you to learn things their way. Many Ivy League schools don’t count AP’s at all. Good to ask. I would specifically ask the Dean of the College. </p>
<p>PreMed is very demanding no matter where you go. Its always stressful and often cutthroat. But its NOT the only way to get into Med School. </p>
<p>Enjoy Fordham’s core. Good broad based courses to help you get a balanced perspective and a good start to college. Don’t overstress about starting your major too soon. That leads to burnout and worse. Ive seen it a hundred times.</p>
<p>Don’t just ask the dean, especially if you’re coming in with a lot of AP’s. Talk to the heads of departments you might be interested in majoring in. They’re making a lot of changes now to requirements for majors across the board so I know not all the AP testing credits are settled, but they’re also a good point of reference to keep in mind.</p>
<p>Good to know about the APs.</p>
<p>I do believe, however, that regardless of an AP exempting you from a class, all APs count towards your credit number. The higher your credit number, the earlier you register for classes. So, it is still very beneficial to come into Fordham with as many APs as possible.</p>