Cornell University Vs Williams College

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I won't go into details, but I'm an athletic recruit with the option of choosing to go to either Cornell University OR Williams college (and Claremont Mckenna, but I feel the former choices eclipse Claremont). Since the coach from Cornell contacted me, I've been enamored by the school, and the thought of going to an "Ivy" league university - since otherwise I would of just gone to my local State University.</p>

<p>However the other day - one of my friends, whose a premed at the University of Washington, informs me that the Premed program at UW was ridiculously cutthroat - and he's a pretty smart guy (near perfect SATs, all the good stuff). That worries me, because although I'm a pretty good student (around a 2000 SAT), I'm nowhere near the caliber of alot of people on this website. </p>

<p>The coach from Williams college also contacted me also. And from what I've heard - it rather small, but provides a great undergrad education. The coach from Claremont McKenna college also called me too.</p>

<p>Since I'm being recruited - I have the luxury of choosing which school I attend. Whatever school I pick I will have a 100% chance of getting in.</p>

<p>Where you go to school matters - even if the quality of education is the same. Some of you may try and disprove this, I'm not looking to argue, and I realize it may matter much less than I think. Either way I want to obtain an education that will serve me for the rest of my life.</p>

<p>So my question is this: Which University/College has the best Undergrad education? Which has the best opportunities available post grad? Which school is overall, just the better decision? I'm planning on majoring in Biology or something and maybe heading into Pharmacy. I heard that "Corn-Hell" was ridiculously hard compared to Williams and Claremont, but I feel like the name "Cornell" signifies some thing more than Claremont or Williams....I don't know. Will I be able to balance a sport and academics at the same time at Cornell vs Williams?</p>

<p>Any answers?</p>

2

<p>Prestige is a non-issue. Both Cornell and Williams have enough prestige to satisfy any prestige whore.</p>

<p>Select on other factors. Size is the obvious one. Location is another. Have you visited either school?</p>

3

<p>Completing a biology major at either Cornell or Williams will challenging. Both schools will offer similar postgraduate opportunities.</p>

4

<p>I’ve been to Cornell - great place, and I loved the campus, although nothing particularly stood out though. I haven’t been to Williams yet, and am not sure whether I will be able to. </p>

<p>As to elaborate a bit more on my story, I am a URM, 1st Gen. My parents came to this country with nothing, and so naturally, want me to obtain the best education possible. So there lies my dilemma. In their eyes, Cornell is leagues above Williams and Claremont, but I see them as being near equal. Ultimately, the choice is mine…</p>

5

<p>Cornell is Division I Athletics; Williams is Division III. </p>

<p>How much of a commitment do you want to give to your sport? Cornell will demand that you travel more, and spend considerably more time and energy on workouts, practices, and games. And you will still be expected to complete all the work in your classes. Williams will be less of a sports commitment, however, if you’re good enough to play Division I, Division III athletics might eventually become too frustrating for your talents and abilities.</p>

6

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<p>This is over-stated. Williams College is Division III. They care about sports but if any coach told you that if he says he wants you, that means you are in is overstepping reality. Coaches do have important input to the admissions process, but that is it. Ivy League recruiting I can’t speak to other than if they’ve sent you a ‘likely letter’ you are as good as in. Of course, while they are Division I, they do not give athletic scholarships. </p>

<p>I doubt there is any degree of separation between Cornell and Williams regarding the rigors of their academics.</p>

7

<p>Which school is better between Williams and Cornell and even Claremont is a non-issue. All three are first rate schools. The only question is which one is better for you. I like the direction gibby is taking this. I can’t help but think that at Williams you’ll be able to give more of your time to academics than your sport.</p>

<p>I’m really confused, how did pre-med at the University of Washington come into this. Are you considering going pre-med? Yes, I suspect you’ll find pre-med at Cornell to be a bit competitive. I doubt there is pre-med at Williams, you would major in something else and then make sure you took the necessary courses to be admitted to medical school.</p>

<p>You really should visit Williams. It will feel very different from Cornell. For many people the issue comes down to would you rather be at a small LAC or a bigger University. You’ll parents will be happy with whatever you choose. (And I suspect they are very proud of you.)</p>

8

<p>There really is no such thing as a pre-med major at any good school. You can major in anything as long as you take a few required science classes. My roommate majored in Indian Studies at Wisconsin and got into Uminn Med which is a very good school. I’d take Williams as the time for sport will be much less and C can be very cutthroat.</p>

9

<p>Well the discussion with my friend entered the discussion because premed at UW is competitive. Cornell isn’t as large as UW, and I probably won’t go premed. But even so, geniuses who ARE premed will be taking all the sciences courses with me, which is what I’m worried about. </p>

<p>I’ve constantly heard the phrase that Cornell is the easiest Ivy to get into, but the hardest to graduate from - so I’m just wondering how much of this is true, and if it’ll be a better decision to try and attend Williams…</p>

10

<p>If you modestly consider yourself the above average, hard-working student who can balance academics and athletics well, Williams is the better choice for you.</p>

<p>The faculty and administration will be at your side through any academic and personal struggles you’ll have. You will not fail at Williams.</p>

<p>At Cornell, however, an excellent but far, far larger school, where a bureaucratic machinery and an research-oriented faculty are necessary for the smooth and effective running of the entire institution, if you fall behind, you’ll be left behind. There will be no mercy for you.</p>

11

<p>Although the below article is two years old, and the data it uses is dated, you might find the trends useful in your quest for an answer.</p>

<p><a href=“http://cornellsun.com/node/26220[/url]”>http://cornellsun.com/node/26220&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>"Although it is not as large as the national average, there is a gap in graduation rates between black and Latino students at Cornell compared with their Caucasian and Asian peers.</p>

<p>According to Cornell’s First-Time Freshman Graduation Rates Fall 1980 - Fall 1999 Entering Classes Biennial Report, the six-year graduation rates for Caucasian and Asian students entering Cornell as freshmen between 1980 and 1999 is around 90 percent. For blacks and Latinos, this number is closer to 80 percent. In 1999 alone, these numbers were 93.6 and 86.6 percent, respectively."</p>

12

<p>I don’t think you have a handle on what kind of school Williams is. It is currently the #1 ranked LAC (USNews) and is undoubtedly one of the best colleges in the country. Outside of academia it does not have quite the name recognition as Cornell but don’t think for a minute that Cornell is better just because it is Ivy League. Williams science programs are very well respected. It is a much smaller (2,000 vs 13,000) students. I am not saying Williams would be the better choice for you, I’m just saying you need to look in to Williams more before you write it off for the “prestige” of the Ivies.</p>

13

<p>Duckie, My son graduated from Williams and is now in a graduate program at Cornell. They are both excellent choices and though there are certain overlaps in the type of student that they attract, the day to day life – academically and socially – is quite different.</p>

<p>Williams’ academics are very serious and in fact I think you might find them even more demanding than Cornell’s. The major difference is that at a small LAC you will get more individual attention than you would at a large university – smaller classes, closer relationships with your professors, accessible support resources. I don’t mean to say that you wouldn’t get an excellent education at Cornell; just that I would give Williams the edge. </p>

<p>What kwu says is very true. Cornell, like most large universities, is somewhat impersonal and bureaucratic. Attention goes to the squeaky wheels. At Williams you will get a lot of support.</p>

<p>Both colleges are located in scenic rural areas and both are enthusiastic about their athletic programs. The difference between Division I and Division III may be significant – e.g., in the amount of time you must devote to your sport – however, Williams is very serious about excellence in sports as well. </p>

<p>A major point of differentiation would be that at Cornell much of the undergrad social life revolves around fraternities and sororities whereas Williams has no Greek system. For my son, Williams’ residential entry arrangement for first years was a big plus. It’s like an instant social group.</p>

<p>Both schools are known for their friendly, extroverted students, but as a URM you may be find more diversity at Cornell than at Williams, just because the pool is larger. </p>

<p>Prestige is a potent factor which is difficult to overlook. Everyone has heard of Cornell. Once you get out of the eastcoast and away from academia, few people have heard of Williams. However, among people who will matter to you – graduate and professional school admissions committees and influential employers, Williams is very well respected.</p>

<p>I would try very hard to visit Williams before making a final decision. As a high achieving URM athletic recruit Williams will most likely fund a visit.</p>

<p>Good luck and let us know how you do.</p>

14

<p>All three schools are excellent. Cornell is huge especially compared to Williams. I heard Williams is getting more serious about sports BTW. agree with momrath’s comments…good advice.</p>

15

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<p>This may be true in a technical sense, but the reality is that Williams College athletics would not be as good as they are if the coaches couldn’t predict admissions results accurately for their most highly sought after recruits.</p>

<p>You do need to listen carefully though. If a Williams College coach has said he or she has run your academic info by admissions and “there shouldn’t be any problem getting in”, I think you can take that to the bank. Any sort of equivocation should raise red flags. </p>

<p>I don’t know what your sport is, but there is a big quality difference in most sports between the Ivy Leage and the NESCAC (Williams’ sports conference).</p>

16

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<p>The NACDA Directors’ Cup is an award given annually by the National Association of Collegiate Directors of Athletics to the colleges and universities with the most success in collegiate athletics. In the 16 years that it has been awarded at the Division III level, Williams has won it 15 times, including the past 13 years in a row. In Princeton Review’s listing of the top 20 schools under the category “Students Pack the Stadium,” Williams is one of only two LACs to make the list. The athletic focus of its students has been a distinctive characteristic of Williams for many years.</p>

17

<p>You will need to visit each to see what fits you best, talk to athletics team members. And look through the registrar’s list of courses offered last semester (NOT the catalogs, which may include courses not given every year) at each institution.</p>

<p>A couple points:

  1. "much of the undergrad social life revolves around fraternities and sororities "
    depends on what your definition of “much” is. Since something like 2/3 of students are not in fraternities/ sororities. D2 is there now and has not been near one,.after dropping in a few parties first year I imagine. Me too, when I was there. There is plenty to do without them, believe me. Social life did not even revolve around them for some people I knew who were actually in them.</p>

<p>However, the 1/3 or so who choose to be in that system certainly seem to enjoy having that social/ living option available to them. And I think a fair amount of athletes do choose to be part of that system, or at least it seemed like that to me. But that’s a choice. One of many.</p>

<p>2) On the subject of choice, since Cornell is big, there is much room to maneuver socially and find your own niche; your own group of people you want to hang out with. LACs of my familiarity tend to attract certain"types" more than others, there is more concern about fit with the (more pronounced/ influential) prevailing campus culture. If you fit in well with the culture/people there it can be great,spectacular even, you have a pool of 1,500 like-minded people to hang out with. If you don’t fit so well, don’t find so many “buds” right around, there’s noplace else to go socially. Your likely social fit vs. Williams might be incredible, that’s something you have to determine, but it would be less a concern at Cornell, due to its size and diversity.</p>

<p>3) I have to imagine that, with 30,000 students in Ithaca, there is more to do, outside of classes, than at Williams. Not that you’ll have time to do it all, but it’s nice to think that whatever you may decide to become interested in will be there.</p>

<p>4) In tems of academics, comparing Williams to Cornell’s Arts & sciences college I highly doubt the work is any easier. However, looking across the offerings at all of Cornell’s seven undergraduate colleges, there’s more opportunity there to manage your likely workload if things are looking particularly tough, vs. at just a small liberal arts college alone. Just more courses to choose from, for any reason. </p>

<p>Sometimes one can find similar courses offered in several of the colleges, at different levels of rigor. Additionally, not every course at every college is intended to kill. So, if you’re taking Organic chemistry and Nuclear physics at the same time, you have opportunity to add a couple interesting and useful but not killer courses in Natual Resources at the ag school, or wine tasting at the Hotel School, if you choose to. Etc. Above and beyond the less killer courses you may find in its liberal arts college. Many if not most people wind up taking courses offered at several of the colleges there.</p>

<p>I personally never managed that workload balance, I killed myself there. But others were smarter about that than I was. I did take, and enjoy, courses at several of the colleges there though, not just one.</p>

<p>5) per #4: there’s a lot more courses offered at Cornell, undoubtedly. If you get interested in a particular area, they will have it probably. Including in more applied areas of study beyond liberal arts.</p>

<p>6) Williams will undoubtedly offer a more intimate environment and smaller classses. For better or worse. Cornell offers a bigger pond (ditto), with more courses to choose from. Reasonable people may prefer one or the other environment.</p>

<p>7) For those that know, Cornell is not more prestigious than Williams, IMO. Suggest choose based on which seems like it would be the best environment for you personally. To succeed academically and socially while you are there.</p>