<p>Hi,</p>
<p>With the deadline coming up fast, I'm still having a lot of trouble figuring out where I want to be for the next four years. I have narrowed my choices down to Cornell (ILR), Carnegie (Tepper), and Georgetown (MSB), but it seems that everyday I change my mind about where I want to be. I intend to go into business after college but I'm not sure what specifically I want to do, although making a good living is definitely high on my list of priorities.</p>
<p>I applied to Cornell's ILR program because the curriculum really intrigued me, and of all three schools, I feel I would enjoy studying the ILR curriculum the most. However, ILR isn't primarily a business program, although I know it isn't impossible to go into finance/investment banking from here. Cornell is gorgeous, but I'd really prefer a city environment.</p>
<p>For Carnegie, I really love the small size of the business school, and the individual attention I would get. I also absolutely love the city of Pittsburgh, strange as it may be, and from my visit, I feel like I connect with the people in Carnegie the best. However, I'm not so sold on relative lack of a social life at Carnegie.</p>
<p>I love Georgetown because of its international focus and it's can't beat location. I love politics and I know I want to travel abroad, and Georgetown definitely fits my interests here. However, from my visit, there seemed to be a surprising lack of an intellectual atmosphere here. </p>
<p>Can anyone expand or correct my impressions? I would be extremely grateful for any help in making this tough decision.</p>
<p>I recommend Georgetown. You sound like you are a city person, and the DC area is a very friendly place for college students due to dining, shopping, etc. Also, Gtown has a very solid social life as well. For career placement, too, Gtown is top notch. Cornell is very good, too, obviously. But, you sound like you prefer a urban setting. Plus, at Cornell, you can choose to take a bunch of finance/businsess courses from AEM as an ILR major, if you wish. Cornell allows you to schedule your courses outside of your college. But, I would focus on your preference, and I think that you might find Gtwon more appealing to you.</p>
<p>I'd go with Georgetown. Their graduation rate really is proof of how great the school is.</p>
<p>A Case for Cornell..</p>
<p>ILR is as about as small as Tepper, with tons of faculty interaction and individual attention. And Ithaca is a miniature version of Shady Side and Squirrel Hill. I agree with you about Pittsburgh -- it's a great city. </p>
<p>You will find the same type of people at Cornell as at Carnegie -- engineers, quants, and art types. But then you will find an additional 9,000 students at Cornell as well.</p>
<p>I will echo your impression about Georgetown's lack of intellectual atmosphere. Outside of the SFS it is really lacking, and the academics at Cornell are going to be a notch above. But if you want a more uppity environment, as opposed to a more laid back perspective, Georgetown is your place.</p>
<p>Cornell also has tons of opportunities abroad -- the ILR program alone has programs in Switzerland, Ireland, and China, to say nothing of the rest of the University. And you can always spend a summer or a semester in D.C. through the Cornell in Washington program. I spent a summer in D.C. interning at a think tank and living with a bunch of Georgetown students -- I was incredibly happy to return back to Ithaca at the end of the summer.</p>
<p>As for Ithaca being relatively small. It is. But Ithaca offers a lot of great things to do in the form of restaurants, outdoor markets, live music, etc. -- unrivaled, really, for a city of its size. You will have the rest of your life to live in cities.</p>
<p>1) Cornell, 2) Georgetown and 3) CMU.</p>
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I'd go with Georgetown. Their graduation rate really is proof of how great the school is.
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<p>Georgetown: 93%
Cornell: 92%</p>
<p>Cornell is more than three times the size than Georgetown.</p>
<p>Above poster, where are you getting those numbers from? I'm getting mine from U.S. News, but if there's newer statistics out, I would love to see them.</p>
<p>By the way, I was also taking into account that Georgetown's classes are smaller than Cornell's.</p>
<p>Of course Cornell is more than three time the size of Georgetown...that's why you use percentages rather than raw numbers. You just shot yourself in the foot buddy. </p>
<p>I would go with Georgetown. There is an active intellectual atmosphere here, but the students do not pretentiously advertise it. Every elite school has its group of jocks, frat guys, and airheads. Lots of Georgetown students take the work hard/party hard mentality seriously, but there is definitely more working than playing going on. If you like the idea of living in a city, go to Georgetown.</p>
<p>Academic aside, social life at Georgetown is very different than Cornell. Cornell has more of a traditional college life - big quad (students hanging out on the lawn when it's nice), fraternity parties, lectures, concerts, small college town, and social life is centered around Cornell. Georgetown is more of a city school, not much of a campus. People usually party at friends' apartments or bars (with fake ids). My daughter's 3 very good friends are at Georgetown. They couldn't believe the difference in social life between Cornell and Georgetown. You should give it a good consideration which school would be a better fit for you because you are not going to be studying 24/7 for next 4 yrs.</p>
<p>Cornell numbers:</p>
<p><a href="http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000403.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000403.pdf</a></p>
<p>Georgetown numbers:</p>
<p>Graduation</a> Statistics | Georgetown University | Washington, DC 20057</p>
<p>The Georgetown numbers may be wrong. But they were the best I could find. What does the magazine say?</p>
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You just shot yourself in the foot buddy.
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<p>Think about the concept of graduation rates, for a second, buddy. You may want to put your foot in your mouth.</p>
<p>For a school as large and as diverse as Cornell is, there is always going to be a fair amount of churn among undergraduates -- students moving back home for health reasons, students transferring to other colleges, etc. This happens at other schools as well, but Cornell is especially prone to this due to the proliferation of different types of students and backgrounds. I don't think a lot Georgetown students have to worry about possibly going back to help out on the family farm for a year if they are needed. Architecture programs -- which Cornell has -- are also notorious for having people pursue other endeavors.</p>
<p>The other reason why students may not graduate within six years are characteristics intrinsic to the institution itself. Lack of quality teaching or advising, students feeling 'lost', etc. That Cornell is more than three times as large as Georgetown, but basically has the same graduation rate, suggests that this isn't much of a problem at all at Cornell. A 1% difference in graduation rates shouldn't encourage a student to go to one school or another.</p>
<p>I see your point. But that doesn't change anything. Georgetown will never be as large as Cornell. It will never have some of the programs Cornell has. So those variables really can't be factored into the equation, because those students attending for Cornell for its unique programs could never attend Georgetown. I didn't say Cornell's graduation was worse than Georgetown's (clearly a 1% difference is not statistically significant). But the fact remains that an equal percentage of their students graduate within 4 years.</p>
<p>To Oldfort:
Georgetown may not have a very large campus, but as an alum, I know that Georgetown student social life is very much centered around campus. While many students may say they plan on exploring downtown DC all the time, it often doesn't happen because there is enough excitement going on within 4 blocks from campus. Also, Georgetown is far far from a bar college. In my four years at Georgetown, a bar visit was never the focal point of night out. The social scene centers around the many student organizations that throw parties and invite friends from other organizations.</p>
<p>Wow, despite everyone elses opinions, I am going to go ahead and say Tepper.</p>
<p>First, the OP said he prefers a city environment. NOTHING about cornell feels like the city, and there isn't access to any other city nearby. While cornell is a great school, the OP said he loves small classes and attention. Despite the size similarity of ILR noted by CayugaRed, the OP will still have to sit in many large lectures at cornell outside of his major (classes well above 300 students).</p>
<p>Second, OP stated that he loves Pittsburgh and connected well with the students- thats bells in my head saying go with Tepper all the way.</p>
<p>ImperialMaj, with my argument above, and your stated preferences, I would say go with CMU. Your only worry is lack of social life? This is no problem. I have heard of great parties at CMU, as well as the whole city of Pittsburgh at your door step. Are you into sports and frats? Because UPitt is literally steps away from CMU, and they have great college sports, and a nice party scene as well.</p>
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However, I'm not so sold on relative lack of a social life at Carnegie.
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<p>While this can be true for CS and engineering majors at CMU (and it's not really true even for them), it's pretty far off base for the students in Tepper. I don't remember any of my friends, by they in engineering (like myself), CS, H&SS, or Tepper ever complaining about having a lack of a social life. Just about everyone you'll meet at CMU is friendly, even if some of them aren't the most outgoing people.</p>
<p>The only reason I can see for going to Georgetown over CMU is if you want to be in the DC area after graduation; you'd probably have an easier time finding a job there than CMU. Otherwise, CMU gets recruiters from all over the country. You can find stats on it here: Post-Graduation</a> Survey Results - Information for Students and Alumni - Career Center - Student Affairs</p>
<p>I used to live 5 blocks from CMU in Squirrel Hill, Pittsburgh, and the area is fantastic. There's no Metro or anything like in D.C., but you are in walking/biking distance of Squirrel Hill business district, and all of Oakland, which is the home of the University of Pittsburgh (in fact Pitt is a few blocks down the street from CMU). If you don't want to walk or bike, it is just as easy to take the PAT bus. It is a lively area with plenty to do: Ice skating in Schenley Park, the Carnegie Theatre, Library, Natural History & Art Museums, and all of the shopping and other stuff associated with most college towns in Oakland, including cheap food. </p>
<p>The campus has a lot of new buildings and facilities, but I will warn you, the food at Cornell is light years ahead of CMU, so if you are into eating at campus venues, then I would steer toward Ithaca. Other than that, I wouldn't worry about being shut out of the recruiting ring because I've heard from many that a lot of recruiters from all over the United States stop at CMU. Therefore, do not be afraid about being in a smaller city. In fact, you might appreciate it (cough D.C. crime cough).</p>
<p>A few things to think about--do finances make a difference or are all schools acceptable to you financial aid/tuition wise? Also, Georgetown is famous for international relations and government. I have not heard of it as famous for business school. Tepper is excellent at CMU. However, is there a chance that you could change your mind of majors? If there is any possibility that you could change your mind, I would take Cornell because of its varied options.</p>
<p>My personal opinion is that CMU offers a much more real and genuine city experience than Georgetown. The neighborhood of Georgetown in D.C. isn't so much urban -- it's basically just a big epicenter of wealth, power, snootiness, and annoying dudes with pink collared shirts that like to call you 'buddy'. Yuck.</p>
<p>If you consider yourself at all laid back or a bit less 'uppity', don't go to Georgetown.</p>
<p>If the urban vs. college town divide isn't going to be the deciding factor for you, I would consider that ILR is more a 'people' driven program whereas Tepper is more of a 'numbers' driven program. If you want more 'numbers' coursework in ILR, you can get a concentration in Econ or take courses in ORIE or AEM, both great programs. If you want more 'people' coursework at Tepper, you will be hard pressed to find some of the top flight courses like negotiation, conflict resolution, organizational behavior, etc. that Cornell ILR offers.</p>
<p>I think I'm leaning towards Cornell. The city factor isn't a deal breaker, but I'm certainly a little tired of living in suburbia all my life. Well, that's how I feel today, at least.</p>
<p>CayugaRed2005 - I'd definitely say I'm more interested in the people side of business, which is the reason I applied to ILR in the first place. However, I want to keep my options open for all aspects of business, including finance/ibanking, which would require more quantitative skills. I'm pretty good at math, but I'm just sick and tired of it after high school, haha. </p>
<p>Even if I take AEM courses at Cornell, would I still be at a disadvantage at getting a finance/ibanking job at a top firm?</p>
<p>Also, I'm very interested in minoring in International Relations/Studies or something similar. Can I minor in that at Cornell while also concentrating on finance and taking AEM courses? I want to study so many different things...</p>
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Even if I take AEM courses at Cornell, would I still be at a disadvantage at getting a finance/ibanking job at a top firm?
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<p>No. Not if you have the grades and shine in your interview. Anthropology or history majors can land jobs with top ibanking firms if they have good grades and shine in their interview.</p>
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Also, I'm very interested in minoring in International Relations/Studies or something similar. Can I minor in that at Cornell while also concentrating on finance and taking AEM courses? I want to study so many different things...
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<p>Yes, the International Relations Minor at Cornell is pretty popular, and can be taken in any of the seven different undergraduate colleges. A fair number of the ILR courses can satisfy the requirements of the International Relations minor, so you can kill two birds with one stone.</p>
<p>I actually feel that international relations and foreign policy studies is pretty underrated at Cornell. Walter LeFeber recently retired, but I think that Cornell is still a very strong place to study foreign relations. East and Southern Asian studies at Cornell are excellent, as are a lot of the European studies programs -- German and Romance Studies. The weakest area for Cornell is probably Middle and Near Eastern studies. It's not quite Georetown SFS, but it is still pretty damn good, especially considering all of the other resources that Cornell offers.</p>
<p>Here are the details of the International Relations concentration:</p>
<p>Initiatives - International</a> Relations Concentration - Requirements</p>
<p>Initiatives - International</a> Relations Concentration - Courses</p>
<p>One thing to point out about ILR- it IS more people oriented, and companies know that, so I don't think it stands up to a business program (tepper and georgetown) in terms of banking hirees. its not quantitative, and all you need is a 3 on AP Calc AB to get out of the math requirement, so you won't be using numbers very much. If you choose ILR, I would try and minor in math.</p>
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it IS more people oriented, and companies know that, so I don't think it stands up to a business program (tepper and georgetown) in terms of banking hirees.
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<p>Not true. As long as you take a couple of quantitative courses, it is not going to matter to any company whether or not you attended Cornell, Georgetown, or Tepper. At that point it boils down to grades and strength of the interview. Trust me, I have interviewed students from all three schools for positions at banks. We don't care about the relative programs, we care about the individual student and their merits.</p>