Cornell vs. Amherst Dilemma for Biology

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cornell University
1

<p>So here’s my dilemma…
I am a prospective Biology major who had been accepted to Brown, Cornell (CALS) and Amherst. I am considering an MD, MD/Ph.D or just a Ph.D after undergrad, as I am interested in medicine, teaching, and research.
I am from a rather small, rural school (~200 per class), but I have had mainly had classes with the same ~50 people since 7th grade. I enjoy interacting a lot with my teachers and participate a lot in class. I am interested it the liberal arts, but I do plan on some kind of graduate study in Biology.
Right now, I am leaning towards Amherst because of its small size and faculty interaction. I have been offered a special research/scholarship program so I would immediately have a faculty mentor and be funded to do research. While Amherst is small, I like the 5 college system (I feel that I could take the 1 or 2 upper level classes I really want that Amherst doesn’t offer at UMass or elsewhere) and the general area (in a town etc). I feel that at Amherst I would be able to get better recommendations from profs who know me and have more involvement/leadership opportunities in extracurriculars. However, Amherst’s small size means that it had limited course offerings and limited opportunities to pursue graduate level work as an undergraduate. Also, there are only about 30 Biology majors in each class and I am not sure how an Amherst Biology degree would look to graduate/medical schools/the strength of the program.<br>
Cornell, on the other hand, offers many courses in Biology and I could take some grad classes as an undergrad. Also, there are tracks within the Biology major which is a plus. At Cornell, I also have the Presidential Research Scholars award, which means that I would be funded and encouraged to do research, as at Amherst. However, to my knowledge the classes at Cornell are large, especially those in Biology (upper level Bio classes at Amherst are like 10 and intro is 80 versus 40 and 400+ at Cornell, I think), and the school is bordering on way too large in general for me. I worry that at Cornell I would lack personal attention and be just another number and that because of the class sizes and competitiveness would be discouraged from taking classes that I am interested in that are outside of my comfort zone, strengths or major (Classics classes or Intro Latin for instance). (I guess I feel that the same goes for extracurriculars, that I won’t be able to do anything at Cornell unless I’m super good at it because of the size). On the other hand, Cornell is closer to my house (100 minutes versus 5.5 hours) and since I am in CALS and a NYS resident, cheaper (I could save some money for med/grad school). Do grad schools look at a CALS degree like a CAS degree? Cornell is tops in Biology, but I do have some social qualms about it, (frats, drinking, competitive environment etc.) and feel that I might fit in better at Amherst socially. I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that Cornell is kind of cold compared to the other schools I am considering.
Perhaps it boils down to if I want to focus on learning specific info or learning how to think.</p>

<p>Finally, my question, would I be crazy to turn down Cornell to go to Amherst, a school where Biology is not necessarily the focus, when I am planning grad work in Biology?
Is there a difference in prestige factor between the schools? (I am already leaning Cornell over Brown, is that a bad decision for the future?)</p>

<p>Do any of you Amherst kids feel that it is too small or limiting or Cornell kids feel that it is too big and cold?
Could any students at either school, especially Biology/pre-med students at Cornell comment on class sizes/personal attention?
Thanks to any and all who read this very long rambling post and respond!</p>

2

<p>Amherst is a great school and its prestige is well recognized by grad schools. If you like it there in terms of size, faculty-student interaction, and community, you should go there by all means. As you know, Cornell has a different set of strengths. It sounds as though you wouldn't appreciate them as much as Amherst's.</p>

<p>Nevertheless, coming from a large public institution, I can tell you about the benefits of a big school. You get to experience a diverse crowd of students and professors and choose from various courses and majors. In order to gain attention and recognition among a highly talented group of students, you will need to challenge yourself constantly and be proactive. At the end of the day, you will be prepared for the real life much better. In my subjective experience, students from small LACs were rather narrow-sighted and lacking independence and personal initiative. I hate to put it this way, but students from big schools learn to live tough like weed, whereas those from small LACs are like green-house plants.</p>

3

<p>
[quote]
Amherst is a great school and its prestige is well recognized by grad schools. If you like it there in terms of size, faculty-student interaction, and community, you should go there by all means. As you know, Cornell has a different set of strengths. It sounds as though you wouldn't appreciate them as much as Amherst's.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I basically agree; if you place that much emphasis on having a smaller class / campus size, Amherst might be the better fit.</p>

<p>Just a heads-up, though: from what I've read, most Cornell horror stories are severely overblown. I don't think the class sizes are too daunting outside of the introductory courses; as you specialize, they get smaller and smaller. "Ultracompetitive" is probably a little strong, too -- I don't think anybody will stab you in the back for that A+.</p>

<p><em>note: I haven't even matriculated yet, so this is all based on hearsay.</em></p>

4

<p>To any other pre-frosh: class sizes are listed on the Cornell Registrar's site if you are curious. Just search Google for Cornell median grades. Many other areas seem to have smaller classes, but Bio seems large.</p>

5

<p>Well I would have chosen Brown if you're thinking about an MD. But since you seem to have dismissed the idea, I would strongly consider Cornell. Yes the degree is looked at like a CAS degree. Also, since you're an NY resident, with sound financial decisions with some scholarships, you could come out of college paying a fraction of what you'll pay at Amherst. I would choose Cornell, it has better name recognition and I think more post-undergrad prospects including paying less money.</p>

6

<p>why would you have chosen brown over cornell for an MD? (that's the decision i have to make...with not much time left)</p>

7

<p>
[quote]
why would you have chosen brown over cornell for an MD? (that's the decision i have to make...with not much time left)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm pretty sure Cornell's bio program is stronger than Brown's, but since it's so much more rigorous and competitive, Cornell pre-meds often end up with lower GPAs than Brown pre-meds.</p>

<p>Those are just two things I've heard.</p>

8

<p>^^
Yes and brown has (I think?) a great medical school.</p>

9

<p>Cornell Weill Medical School is a top 20.</p>

<p>And Cornell is known by schools to be rigorous; medical schools you apply to will know this and consider it when they judge your app. Someone can link to the GPA/MCAT score stats for cornell med school admits.</p>

<p>In all thruthfulness, I think it really comes down to your abilities--not your institution--that will determine if you get into med school. I think that in order to make the right choice here, you have to stop thinking in that gaming way. Stop asking yourself "which school will give me an easy foot into the doors of med school" and try to figure out which school is really right for you. They'll all be great for pre-med. They have good med school acceptance rates because people like you, who are smart and determined to go to med school, are there. Now you have to look at other things.</p>

10

<p>Cornell's premed is very rigorous, extremely. There is NO question about that. A gpa inflation school like Brown would well inflate her GPA. However, all things being fair and equal, with a profession like medicine, I would go with Cornell. That is because I would like to know that I earned my GPA and learned a whole lot. However, both choices have their good sides and badsides. To the OP, you have excellent choices, I would say visit all 3 schools and pay extra attention to Cornell and Brown. (Heh you have ABC- Amherst, Brown, and Cornell, just noticed.)</p>

11

<p>r1400sch:</p>

<p>i totally agree with you... that being said... this is the Cornell forum so we might be a little biased but I would agree with some others who have posted^^^ and say go with Cornell...</p>

<p>Their Bio & Society
Human Bio Health & Society
and Biological Sciences</p>

<p>majors would all be great for Pre Med</p>

12

<p>I would DEFINITELY visit for feel. Both are GREAT schools and you truthfully can't go wrong. Maybe you could follow a bio student to classes for a day as well if that is possible. Cornell will definitely give you more opportunities for bio but Amherst has more of the small feel that you say that you like so this is hard to answer. When I visited Cornell I thought it would be completely different then it was. I literally went to my parents "Wow, I feel like I'm at a small school right now". It has such a nice feel to it...it's not like one of those Modern gigantic colleges that you feel like you could easily get lost in. I really liked the feel...and this is coming from someone who also likes the small feel. My town doesn't have a highschool and the highschool I went to was rather small and farmy so I know where you are coming from. Best of luck in your choices, and congrats on getting into such extraordinary schools!</p>

13

<p>Internationally, Cornell is more well-known than Amherst. (well-known does not equal prestigious.) I agree with other people who have said that both are great schools. You really need to see your personal preferences. An education at either place will serve you good in the long run.</p>

14

<p>Because you seem to have dismissed Brown, this may be a waste....but from where I stand, Brown is the perfect "middle ground" based on your desires.</p>

<p>Brown has a student population larger than Amherst, and much, MUCH smaller than Cornell. You would be getting Ivy League resources (research, academic, social, prestige etc.) without the overwhelming size of Cornell. And as some other posters have mentioned, Brown DOES have a great medical school. The sciences are extremely strong at Brown......and based on my kid's first year experience there, you WILL have strong relationships with your professors! No doubt! With the flexibility of Brown's Open Curriculum, you will be able to take as much or as little in any subject area you choose. You will be in the driver's seat.....</p>

<p>Yes, Brown is more urban than Cornell.....and I think Amherst ....but because of its situation atop College Hill, it really doesn't have the grind and roar of a large city. My kid is a country boy himself and just adores Providence!</p>

<p>It sounds like you have visited them all......I'd say just go with your gut. If you KNOW you don't want BIG----my advice is to avoid Cornell---but that's just me! :o) If you want very small, go with Amherst----or for a combination of the 2---go for Brown! They all have much to offer in terms of academics so you cannot go wrong with any of them---it seems you are just down to where you think you will be the happiest and a place that is in line with your financial resources. Good luck!</p>

15

<p>Thanks to all who replied
I know Brown looks perfect on paper but when I visited it just didn't feel right, whereas I can see myself both at Cornell and Amherst which makes a tough choice. I wish I could mix them and get the best of both worlds!</p>

16

<p>Then go to one college for two years, and then tranfer the another.</p>

17

<p>eventer31590--One opinion from a parent with family at Cornell and with my own research interests that take me to Amherst several times a year--With the interests you describe in MD/Ph.D. and research, I'd say definitely Cornell. My family members are also from a small town in upstate NY, and they have loved it there. The connections with Weill in NYC, etc. would be such a plus, I'd think, for anyone with your aspirations. Amherst has no graduate program at all, so it's going to have a very different feel to someone with an interest in research. Perhaps more limited. </p>

<p>Of the "5 sisters" you speak about in Mass., Mount Holyoke is the one best historically known for science; Amherst is best known nowadays for humanities. That said, if you do choose Amherst for the cozier feel and "greenhouse" nurturing in undergraduate biology, don't miss Antonio's downtown for pizza, and your parents might enjoy the Lord Jeffrey Inn (my favorite) to stay at when they visit! </p>

<p>What lovely choices you have--good luck to you!</p>

18

<p>have chosen to go to Amherst. My mentor for the Schumf scholars program there would be the chair of the department and she seems really exicited to work with me. It was a tough choice though, and it came down to my learning style, the fact that I have always thought that Cornell was too big and the realization that even though Cornell offers so many great classes, there is no possible way I could take or even consider them all. Go Amherst 2011!</p>

19

<p>Oops there should be an I in there. Thanks to everyone who replied. I def considered your input in making my final decision. I'm just glad it's over.</p>

20

<p>eventer31590--Glad to hear you've made a choice and that you're excited about it! Amherst is a great college town. I love visiting there for research and understand why it might feel more comfortable to you, coming from a small town. There's always Cornell for graduate school, too, if that remains of interest! Best of luck to you!</p>