Cornell Vs. Berkeley

College Search & Selection
21

<p>Some of this prior discussion may be relevant:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=181282%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=181282&lt;/a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=181292%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=181292&lt;/a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=182869%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=182869&lt;/a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=169071%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=169071&lt;/a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=60359%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=60359&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

22

<p>So, in effect, what they guy is saying is = all students at Berkeley went there only because of cost preference. If you're mind is stable, would you really believe this kind of crap? I' applying to some top US schools but applying to Cornell didn't even cross my mind. And I don't need a scholarship like many of Cornell's students.</p>

<p>Jesus christ, can't you people take things in context? weenie claimed that people were unhappy at Cornell because it was a "safety" ivy, and I countered that by that logic, Berkeley students were unhappy because they went there due to the price.</p>

<p>Seriously, READ.</p>

23

<p>hmm still not sure...</p>

24

<p>Why only those two alternatives? Neither may be ideal because of location (Berkeley because it's too close to home, Cornell because it's so far away and a bit difficult to get into and out of because it is not near a major city).</p>

<p>Maybe there are other, even more attractive alternatives? It depends on exactly what you want to study, but maybe consider Michigan? WUSTL? Georgetown? Northwestern? UVA? Rice?</p>

25

<p>
[quote]
Berkeley. No question. Kids just don't seem that happy at Cornell. Too many choose it as a second choice "Ivy."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
...the hell? Even if that's remotely true, how's Berkely any better with many students going there solely because of cost and not preference?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yeah, I agree. Both schools have their share of students who wish they were going somewhere else but didn't get in. A lot of Cornell students wish they were going to another Ivy. A lot of Berkeley students wish they were going to Stanford. </p>

<p>But I don't think that's particularly surprising. After all, the harsh truth is, frankly, every school out there except one has some students who wish they were going elsewhere but didn't get in. That one exception being Harvard.</p>

26

<p>Harvard's one exception is "I'd rather go somewhere else, but the Harvard name is just too strong to ignore"</p>

27

<p>wow that is so true.</p>

28

<p>In my humble opinion, i think you'd find fewer dissatisfyed people at Cornell because it accepts over a third of its students through ED, meaning Cornell was their first choice. I also think that it would be an even higher percentage for engineering because of it's reputation as best in the ivies in engineering. </p>

<p>And to the OP: Don't be too sure you'll be able to easily get into both of those schools.</p>

29

<p>
[quote]
Harvard's one exception is "I'd rather go somewhere else, but the Harvard name is just too strong to ignore"

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This happens at every school with a strong brand name, including Berkeley and Cornell. At both schools, there are plenty of students who are there just for the name, as the school was the most prestigious one that they got into.</p>

30

<p>I would highly suggest visiting both schools as they are different. Berkeley was my first choice until I actually visted the school after being accepted and just was not impressed with the campus or the disorganized way Cal Day was run. Being from CA, I didn't think I'd like Cornell but my experience has been great (I'm now a senior graduating this year). So I highly suggest visiting the schools rather than basing your decision off expectations.</p>

31

<p>Well, I’ll give you anecdotal evidence. Interpret as you please.</p>

<p>a) an * assistant* professor of EECS @ an ivy school – BS:Cornell, PhD: Berkeley
b) a **full **professor of EECS @the same ivy school - BS, PhD: Berkeley</p>

32

<p>i'm sure the assistant professor is also significantly younger than the full professor...</p>

33

<p>lol I'm not sure what is the point rabban was trying to make. Everyone starts out as an assistant or associate professor.</p>

34

<p>not by much, less than 10 years. Also, the full professor has her own company, not to mention she's the "named" professor :)</p>

35

<p>Rabban, I still don't particularly understand your point. Lots of assistant profs are only 10 years younger than full profs. Like norcalguy said, everybody starts out as an assistant prof. </p>

<p>Furthermore, it is quite common for engineering full professors to have their own companies. In fact, that is one of the first things that many profs who receive tenure do. Now that they got tenure, they can devote their spare time to doing other things, like making money on the side. </p>

<p>I also don't see what the 'named' professorship has to do with anything. Even assistant profs sometimes have 'named' professorships. To give you some examples, Jared Curhan is the "Mitsui Career Development Assistant Professor of Organization Studies" at MIT. That's a 'named' professorship. Or, perhaps more poignantly, Thomas Roemer was the "Robert N. Noyce" Assistant Professor at MIT - and he didn't even get tenure, and is now at UCSD.</p>

36

<p>Well, Sakky, my point was simply pointing out the fact that if one’s career goal is to become a professor/researcher in an academic environment, Berkeley is not a bad choice, as evidenced by my example. This might not be applicable to all students, and I also understand for some students, academic rigor and participating in high-level research with world-class professors is not all they seek. One more thing: Quite coincidentally, the Berkeley-educated professors are the majority of the same research group in the EECS dept. at the ivy school that I’d referenced.</p>

<p>Just to further show the “dominance” of Berkeley in academic world, let’s look at the different schools</p>

<p>MIT’s chemical eng. Dept:</p>

<p><a href="http://web.mit.edu/cheme/people/facu...ulty.name.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web.mit.edu/cheme/people/facu...ulty.name.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Again, Berkeley-educated professors are the majority of the entire ChemE department faculty of MIT, arguably the best ChemE dept. in the world!!!</p>

<p>While I am at it, how about the Chemistry dept. of MIT?</p>

<p>Berkeley-under:</p>

<p><a href="http://web.mit.edu/chemistry/www/fac...ovassaghi.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web.mit.edu/chemistry/www/fac...ovassaghi.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://web.mit.edu/chemistry/www/faculty/jamison.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web.mit.edu/chemistry/www/faculty/jamison.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Berkeley-PhD:</p>

<p><a href="http://web.mit.edu/chemistry/www/faculty/stubbe.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web.mit.edu/chemistry/www/faculty/stubbe.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://web.mit.edu/chemistry/www/faculty/ting.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web.mit.edu/chemistry/www/faculty/ting.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://web.mit.edu/chemistry/www/fac...anvoorhis.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web.mit.edu/chemistry/www/fac...anvoorhis.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://web.mit.edu/chemistry/www/faculty/ceyer.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web.mit.edu/chemistry/www/faculty/ceyer.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Let’s go for another state….</p>

<p>The Aero eng. dept. of the flagship university of MD:</p>

<p>The world-renowned professor Pines, the expert in smart material/structure, Berkeley-under, MIT-phd:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.aero.umd.edu/facstaff/fac...s-darryll.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.aero.umd.edu/facstaff/fac...s-darryll.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>and Professor Yu, one of the few “forerunners” in the world in the area of the active control theory in combustion, Berkeley all the way (BS-PHD):</p>

<p><a href="http://www.aero.umd.edu/facstaff/fac...u-kenneth.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.aero.umd.edu/facstaff/fac...u-kenneth.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I can go on and on… but you get the point.</p>

37

<p>Let me join the chorus of people who don't get your point.</p>

<p>From what I read, nobody on this thread said UCB didn't have a great engineering school. Several posts affirmed the contrary ("prestigious", "at the top few in the country"...)</p>

<p>It only follows that a prestigious program that is among the top few in the country would have substantial representation among the faculty of the nation's leading research institutions. Particularly when this program is large. I don't think anyone who has posted on this thread up to this point would be surprised to see this in any way.</p>

<p>So I'm not sure what new trails your posts are intended to blaze.</p>

38

<p>Um, if my memories don’t fail me this time again, I believe that post #31 is my first post on this thread. Maybe you are mixed with my other post on a different thread.</p>

<p>Just to clarify, this is what I posted on a different thread.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Among Uber elites (i.e., the member of National Research Councils), the following schools are very prestigious:</p>

<p>Engineering: MIT-Berkeley-Stanford-Caltech</p>

<p>Hard Sciences (inc. Math): MIT-Caltech-Berkeley-Princeton-Harvard-Stanford-Chicago</p>

<p>Biological Sciences: Harvard-MIT-Berkeley-Stanford-UCSD</p>

<p>Social Sciences: Berkeley-Harvard-Chicago-Stanford-Michigan-Wisconsin</p>

<p>Humanities : Harvard-Berkeley-Princeton-Columbia-Cornell</p>

<h1>of entity: school</h1>

<p>5: Berkeley
4: Harvard, Stanford
3: MIT,
2: Caltech, Princeton, Chicago
1. Columbia, Cornell, Michigan, Wisconsin, UCSD

[/quote]
</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showpost.php?p=3178583&postcount=5%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showpost.php?p=3178583&postcount=5&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

39

<p>OK, in this last post you are now suggesting that Berkeley is more prestigious, overall, not only than Cornell but also: Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Caltech, Princeton, Chicago,Columbia,Michigan, Wisconsin, UCSD and every other college/university in America. Is this, ultimately your point?</p>

<p>Do you also feel this applies to undergrad college selection, which is, after all, the matter we are discussing here?</p>

<p>So in a choice between Berkeley and Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Caltech, Princeton, Chicago,Columbia, Cornell, Michigan, Wisconsin, UCSD and everyplace else for undergrad, an undecided major should presumably pick Berkeley over all these others, all other things being equal?</p>

<p>Is that what's supposed to follow logically from your last post? Because I think OP and everyone else here can come to their own opinion about that pretty quickly, without a great deal of follow-up analysis and posting.</p>

<p>And if that's not it, then, once again what is your point- in succinct, clear,explicit, focused terms so even I can understand it- and as it applies to this thread on undergraduate college selection?</p>

40

<p>*In a nut shell, my point is this: If he wants to continue his academic pursuit beyond four year college (i.e., PhD) and want to become a professor, Berkeley may provide a better educational environment and more favorable career connections *. I believe I provided enough links to get this point crossed. If not, I don’t know what to tell you.</p>

<p>Let me simply quote this great post:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Even if we forget their prestige for research, their top graduate and professional programs, research universities provide a VERY differerent undergraduate experience from that in the LACS. If you want your lectures to be delivered by well-known faculty at the cutting edge of research (yes, they do teach, and include research advances in their lectures), if you want to start undergraduate research early, and join one of many groups doing exciting work at some of the frontiers of science, then you want to attend a research university. Moreover, their faculty, because of their (inter)national reputation, will be able to open many doors for you later on, anywhere. You just won't have these opportunities, on such a high level, at LACs. This is not their strength. If these are not your priorities, then you may very well be happier at LACs, and they might be more appropriate for you. It depends on what you want

[/quote]
</p>