Cornell vs. Cal vs. Harvey Mudd - Biochemistry

<p>Berkeley’s College of Chemistry is fantastic. It’s smaller and easy to get research opportunities if you pursue them. I would choose Berkeley if you like a large research university environment or Harvey Mudd if you prefer a more intimate environment.</p>

<p>My d is choosing between ucla Berkeley San Diego and mudd. Her major will be in biology. Any input is appreciated.</p>

<p>So the final costs not including transportation will be: Berkeley ~34,000? (I cannot find 2012-13 costs, but 2011-12 were around 32,500), Cornell 59,300, Harvey Mudd 59,200. Transportation will be expensive for Cornell, very cheap for Berkeley, and cheap or middling (depending on how many times I’d take the plane) for Harvey Mudd.</p>

<p>I have come to the conclusion that research opportunities would be good at any of the 3 schools, as would academics. Other factors that I considered secondary before such as cost, location, and environment, may make the decision for me now.</p>

<p>Go to Cal. College of Chemistry is fantastic.</p>

<p>Berkeley - the cost of Cornell and Mudd are too $$$</p>

<p>I have decided to attend Cornell. For me, the final choice came down to that and UC Berkeley, and I almost chose Berkeley. I will list in detail the reasons I made my decision in order to help out those who find themselves in a similar position in the future. I don’t think I could have gone wrong with any of the schools I was considering, so it mostly came down to the place I liked the best. I’ve read online a lot, including this website, to aid my decision, and most people on this website said Berkeley over Cornell (although a significant minority said the opposite). A chart I found on New York Times says that 2/3 of people go to Cornell over Berkeley (although it also said that only 38% go to Berkeley over Virginia, so I’m not sure how accurate it really is). People advised me all different things - many said HMC, many said Berkeley, many said Cornell, and a few said UCLA or UCSD. To me, Cornell seems midway between Berkeley and HMC in many ways - such as on the scale between huge research graduate-focused university and tiny liberal arts college. This decision took me a month and was very difficult. My “gut feeling” was Cornell for a while, but logically/rationally it took much longer to come to the decision.</p>

<p>Faculty (Renown):

  • Berkeley probably the best, with Cornell next (but close) and HMC last.</p>

<p>Faculty (Focus on undergrads):

  • HMC the best, with Cornell next and Berkeley last.</p>

<p>Prestige:

  • Internationally, Berkeley has a huge name. I don’t know if this is because of its graduate school, but even for undergraduate people get impressed with it - that’s just how it is. Cornell is well known too, and Harvey Mudd, of course, is unknown. Nationally, Cornell seems to have an edge over Berkeley in terms of prestige (especially in California, since so many in-staters go to Berkeley), but both are prestigious, and Mudd, again, is essentially unknown. But for hiring, I think all three are about equal; if one gets a good GPA at any of them, employers are impressed. (This has come from talking to several people who work in the field I want to go in. Harvey Mudd is quite well known among science employers, and those who know it have a lot of good things to say about it, but there are a couple who don’t know it. Still, I would say that on the whole all three seem to be fairly even in terms of undergrad prestige for employers - of course, every employer is different.) Cornell’s merit scholarship will probably bump it to a bit more prestigious than the other two, including for employers.</p>

<p>Geographic Location:

  • Berkeley hands down wins this one for me, because it’s merely an hour and a half away by car. Besides Stanford (10 minutes away), I really couldn’t ask for more. HMC is decent - 6 hours by car or probably around an hour long flight. Cornell hands down loses - 8 hour plane trip (including time between flights) or a slightly shorter plane trip to NYC but then a 4 hour bus ride. However, it might be nice to go somewhere new and have a different experience; still, that doesn’t override the vast convenience advantages that Berkeley or even HMC have.</p>

<p>Health:

  • I get mildly sick (flu, etc.) quite often; at Berkeley, I would be able to go home for this while at the other two I would not. For emergencies, I think they all have adequate facilities (and indeed I would be quite shocked if any college did not).</p>

<p>Safety:

  • Harvey Mudd and Cornell both seem pretty safe. Berkeley is not that safe.</p>

<p>Surrounding Location:

  • For many people, Berkeley’s urban location (and proximity to SF) is a major draw. For me it was a drawback, because I do not like cities. When I heard that Cornell was rural, I thought that that meant there were just farms around it. There are if you drive far enough, but Ithaca is around Cornell and feels like a regular small town; you wouldn’t know it was that isolated unless you drove outside it. Claremont, where Harvey Mudd is, is also a nice town. I’d say that for me Harvey Mudd came first, Cornell a close second, with Berkeley last.</p>

<p>Campus (aesthetics):

  • Cornell’s campus is amazing. Every single building is beautiful inside and out. Berkeley’s inner campus is also very nice (tough not as much as Cornell’s), but I felt that some of the outer campus (the part integrated with the city) was not nice. Harvey Mudd doesn’t have a very nice campus. It’s not exactly ugly, but the buildings are quite plain inside and out. So Cornell first, Berkeley next, and Mudd last.</p>

<p>Campus (facilities):

  • Cornell and Berkeley both have really great facilities: labs, libraries, etc. They are probably around equal on this one. Harvey Mudd does not have world-class facilities like the other two. They do have good labs, of course, but they cannot compare to those at the other two which are major research universities. And they only have one library, and that is shared. Of course, there are many fewer students, but still, the other two have much, much better facilities.</p>

<p>Research:

  • I had originally thought that it would be difficult to get undergraduate research at Berkeley, but I do not think that is the case any more, at least in my major. I think the other two would still offer me slightly better opportunities - Mudd would normally be first, but I did get a merit scholarship that offers some research benefits at Cornell, which puts it around on par with Mudd. Still, Berkeley has very good research opportunities (in my area) too.</p>

<p>Internships:

  • All three are most likely equal.</p>

<p>Cost:

  • HMC was a bit more expensive than Cornell, but they would come to around the same when travel expenses are factored in. Berkeley, of course, hands down won this one - about $25,000/year cheaper than the others. But, my parents are very willing to pay for Cornell.</p>

<p>Culture:

  • I liked Cornell’s the most by far. The students were nice at all 3 when I visited, of course, but I got the impression that the Cornell kids were the nicest. Harvey Mudd’s atmosphere was a little too “quirky” for me, and although I am 100% sure I’m majoring in “STEM” it might be nice to have people in other majors around, which Harvey Mudd doesn’t unless you count the other 5 C’s (but those are still different colleges). Berkeley’s hyper-liberal atmosphere was a bit disconcerting, and I also felt like the atmosphere was really impersonal. It also seemed as though many kids at Berkeley couldn’t wait to get off campus to have fun, while Cornell and HMC kids were finding ways to have fun on campus - of course this is a vast generalization, but I still think that the campus social life would be better at Cornell simply because everyone is there. In terms of the people, there will probably be people similar to me at all schools, but maybe a greater concentration at Berkeley since their admission requirements are more weighted towards pure academics. But I’m not sure how much I care about that. The one minus is that Greek life is apparently big at Cornell, but it’s still only 1/4 so I don’t think I will care much. Finally, I will know quite a few more people going to Berkeley next year than Cornell or HMC (although there are people from my school going to all 3), but I still felt that I would have a better time at Cornell.</p>

<p>Weather:

  • Not as big a factor for me as it might be for some others. I personally am not like most people from my area; my preferred temperature is in the range 50-70 degrees, whereas we usually get weather in the 60-100 range. While I do like what locals to my area call “cold” (50-70 degrees), though, Cornell is going to have much worse weather any way you look at it. Not only the cold, but the precipitation and the darkness. I’ve heard that it gets dark very early in the winter, which could be depressing, and hail/sleet would be annoying to deal with on a regular basis. Snow would actually be cool as long as it wasn’t too heavy. Berkeley has the best weather, followed by HMC (there isn’t much difference, I think HMC’s in a location which is a little warmer though and, as mentioned, I don’t care for the heat). I won’t mind the cold itself at Cornell too much, more the darkness and the inconvenience of hail/sleet/snow, as well as the inconvenience of having to wear thick jackets often, and the fact that there won’t be much fun stuff to do outside (besides winter sports) from around mid November - mid March.</p>

<p>Food:

  • Not super important, but Cornell has great cafeteria food and Berkeley has the best outside dining. I’d say they’re about equal, and both better than HMC.</p>

<p>Sports/Music:

  • Cornell has the best music program (I do plan on continuing playing an instrument through college, and Cornell is the one at which it’s easiest to get private instruction). Cornell and Berkeley are both D1 schools (though Berkeley has better sports in general), but I mainly wanted to go watch basketball games and stuff so they’re both good enough. HMC obviously doesn’t have great sports. Intramural/club sports would probably be easiest to participate in at Cornell, although I don’t know if I will. Again, neither of these is really important to me.</p>

<p>Course flexibility:

  • Cornell by quite a bit. Berkeley, of course, has impacted classes; although I don’t think it’s as much a problem as some people say, many of the students and even some professors acknowledged that it was unlikely one would get all the classes they wanted. Berkeley’s MCB major doesn’t give much AP credit, making switching to Chemical Biology more important for me (it gives more). It seems that, though I could definitely double major at Berkeley, it would be more difficult than at Cornell (I met a ton of double majors at Cornell, all of whom said they had no problem doing it and still taking electives for fun, while most of the Berkeley students said that, although they were graduating in 4 years too, it wasn’t that easy to double major and they had much less freedom as they spent most of the classes fulfilling requirements). Changing majors seems easiest at Cornell too. Cornell also seems to give the students more ability to take graduate-level courses, although it is certainly possible at Berkeley too. At HMC, the core and HSA requirements are quite big, making double majoring very difficult. I talked to students there and they said it would be quite hard to pull off my intended double major (Chemistry/Biology joint major + Computer Science second major) and graduate in 4 years. Many of the undergraduate courses are certainly advanced, but of course I couldn’t take actual graduate courses (either that, or it would be very difficult; I know there is a Claremont graduate university but I did not see any indication that HMC students could take courses there). Besides that, Cornell and Berkeley, being big schools, just offer such a broad range of courses that HMC can’t match (although their catalog is undoubtedly impressive).</p>

<p>Size:

  • Obviously, HMC is very small (even if you include the other 4 C’s), Cornell is big and Berkeley bigger. From the start, I wanted to go to a midsize university because I felt that would be the best fit. While none of these three is truly midsize, Cornell is the closest.</p>

<p>Merit Scholarships:

  • Cornell gave me the Tanner Dean’s scholarship (monetarily minor - $600 total, with other benefits), while I did not get anything from either of the others. I tried not to let this color my decision, since Berkeley and HMC are both great schools without any scholarship. Still, it was nice to know that my efforts were recognized by Cornell, and I was a bit surprised by not receiving the HMC scholarship based on my observations of who did get it. I was not as surprised by Berkeley because I am pretty sure I didn’t get it because of my interview; my interviewer seemed to dislike me right off the bat for whatever reason. Again, I first tried to figure out where I’d go if none of the scholarships existed, and the answer was still Cornell, I think, so this is just a bonus.</p>

<p>One more [insignificant] thing to note is that I could transfer to Berkeley (maybe not as a sophomore, but then as a junior) if I wanted to, whereas transferring to Cornell would probably be harder and of course I would not be eligible for the scholarship anymore (while I might actually even be considered for the Regents scholarship again if I did transfer to Berkeley as a junior). This is something I thought of after I already made up my mind, so obviously it didn’t influence my decision.</p>

<p>Finally, I will say that if cost was a major factor I would have chosen Berkeley in a second. But it wasn’t, so I am going where I think I will be happiest, and I fully intend to reimburse my parents for my college education as soon as I can. There are also ways I can ease the burden (paid summer internships and jobs during the school year; reduced spending on nonessentials) that I will definitely do - that I may not have done at Berkeley because I wouldn’t have thought about it. These things will probably not only earn money but also “build character.” Basically, I wanted to minimize my own regrets, and somehow I think I am less likely to look back and regret spending the money to have a great college experience than to regret going to the cheaper option when it wasn’t my first choice. Is Cornell worth $100,000 more over 4 years than Berkeley? Realistically, no. No school is really worth that much more than Berkeley, or UCLA or UCSD. But, for that matter, it’s not worth $70,000 to attend Berkeley for 4 years instead of going to De Anza and getting a 4.0 (which I know I could do) and transferring to Berkeley for junior and senior year - (you would still get the same degree). Yet, I don’t think many people would recommend that route for people for whom cost isn’t a major factor, because the college experience would be much better if one attended Berkeley for 4 years. Similarly, I think my overall experience will be better at Cornell (which isn’t to bash on Berkeley), and my parents and I are willing to spend that money for that reason. I am more likely to flourish where I am having the best time, and from everything I’ve seen, I think that would be at Cornell.</p>

<p>Cornell is supposed to be well regarded for biochemistry. You should be able to thrive here.</p>

<p>I think that’s a great decision. Also, on the east coast, Cornell is regarded much more highly than Berkeley or HMC. I know you said nationally Berkeley is more highly rated, but here you will be thought of as very intelligent and looked up to. Cornell Undergrad will get you into any great Grad program you would want to go to on the east coast, including Harvard, Yale, and Brown. Congratualtions! Seriously, being admitted to Cornell is rare and a big deal. Have a great time this fall!</p>