Cornell vs Middlebury vs Bowdoin (For Enviro/Sciences)

College Search & Selection
1

<p>So I got into all three of these schools...and I have no clue where to go.</p>

<p>I feel like Cornell is too big, so I am siding towards Bowdoin and Midd. However, will the lack of name recognition harm me? Of course, I have people pushing me towards Cornell simply because it has more name "prestige." </p>

<p>I am planning on majoring in Bio/Environmental Studies. Also, at Bowdoin, the Earth & Oceanographic Science program looks cool. Although Midd is more known for environmental stuff, I am particularly interested in marine ecology...so Bowdoin's Coastal Studies Center seems like a great resource. But Midd is considered to be the best ES program... However, Bowdoin's sciences (bio) are considered to be better than Midd.</p>

<p>Where should I go? Gahhh, this is so hard.</p>

2

<p>This has potential to end up like the Duke vs Amherst thread…</p>

<p>“Harm you”??? How could you be harmed?</p>

<p>Midd and Bowdoin are AT LEAST as strong as Cornell and have reputations that are AT LEAST as strong, at least for people who will matter to you grad school and/or career-wise down the road.</p>

<p>Where does this bias against LACs come from? I mean, do you know how fortunate you are to have gotten in any of those 3 schools? Midd and Bowdoin are absolute top-of-the-line undergrad institutions.</p>

3

<p>I would suggest looking at the course offerings at each of the three schools. Environmental Science can vary greatly from school to school, and by looking at the curriculum requirements, you may be able to narrow down your choices.</p>

<p>Also consider the other majors each school has to offer. My d started out in Environmental Science, and switched to MechE, because she felt that would be more useful to her in her pursuit of working on renewable energy.</p>

4

<p>Bump… Thanks for the responses so far, but I would like some more advice.</p>

5

<p>Average class size is one metric that tends to distinguish LACs from research universities. Cornell has the highest percentage of big classes (~18% >= 50 students) in the Ivy League (compared to ~1% at Bowdoin and Middlebury). How big is big when it comes to intro/intermediate courses in various subjects? </p>

<p>Unfortunately, enrollment numbers don’t seem to be posted on the course information pages for these 3 schools. But have a look at the numbers for some “peer” LACs and research universities that do post this information (keeping in mind, again, that Cornell has a larger percentage of big classes than any of the schools below, and that Bowdoin and Midd have a smaller percentage of large classes than any of the schools below).</p>

<p>Swarthmore College Spring 2013<a href="%7E2%%20of%20classes%20have%20%3E=%2050%20students">/u</a></p>

<p>Intro to Environmental Studies (enrollment limit: 40)
Organismal & Popul Biol (enrollment limit: 150 lecture, 24 lab)
Intro to Econ (enrollment limit: 25)
General Chem 01 (enrollment limit: 30 - Fall 2012)
Organic Chemistry (enrollment limit: 106 lecture, 16 lab)
Cog Psych (enrollment limit: 35 - Fall 2012 )
History of US, 1877-Pres (enrollment limit: 35 - Fall 2012)</p>

<p>Williams College Spring 2013 (averages for past 4 years)<a href="%7E4%%20of%20classes%20have%20%3E=%2050%20students">/u</a></p>

<p>Intro to Environmental Science (21)
Organismal & Popul Biol (enrollment limit: 150)
Principles of Microeconomics (enrollment: 31)
Fundamentals Modern Chem (enrollment: 66)
Organic Chemistry (enrollment: 50)
Cog Psych (enrollment : 50 )
History of US, 1865-Pres (enrollment: 24)</p>

<p>Columbia Spring 2013<a href="%7E7%%20of%20classes%20have%20%3E=%2050%20students">/u</a></p>

<p>Earth’s Environmental Systems (52)
Biology I 001 (enrollment: 256)
Principles of Economics 002 (enrollment limit: 228)
General Chemistry 002 (enrollment: 194 lecture, 29-50 lab)
Organic Chemistry 001(enrollment: 272, 25-39 lab)
Intro to Social Cognition (enrollment limit: 200)
American Civ since Civil War (enrollment limit: 77)</p>

<p>JHU Spring 2013<a href="%7E10%%20of%20classes%20have%20%3E=%2050%20students">/u</a></p>

<p>Intro to Sustainability (enrollment limit: 110)
General Biology II (enrollment limit: 200)
Elements of Microeconomics (enrollment limit: 22)
Intro Chemistry II (enrollment limit: 290)
Organic Chemistry II (enrollment limit: 375)
Intro to Cog Psych (enrollment limit: 350)
Making America … since Depression (enrollment limit: 20)</p>

<p>Princeton<a href="%7E11%%20of%20classes%20have%20%3E=%2050%20students">/u</a></p>

<p>Environ Implications of Energy Technologies, 79 students
Intro to Microeconomics, 422 students
General Chemistry I (Fall 2012), 189 students
Organic Chemistry I (Fall 2012), 274 students
Intro to Psychology, 171 students
Cog Psych, 56 students
United States Since 1974 (Fall 2012), 184 students</p>

6

<p>Bowdoin or Midd…prob Bowdoin…and they serve lobster in the #1 ranked dining hall.</p>

7

<p>^^^i think they only have one lobster bake a year.</p>

8

<p>Haha. But that’s one more than Midd or Cornell, right? :)</p>

9

<p>“Midd is considered to be the best ES program…”</p>

<p>It’s the oldest. “Best” is always debatable.</p>

10

<p>So is midd’s ES program so well known simply because it’s the oldest?</p>

11

<p>

Middlebury has the oldest undergraduate program in environmental science, yes, but it’s also very reputable because it’s a very strong and popular program. Additionally, since environmentalism is alive and well at Midd, even other departments (e.g. history and English) will offer some courses with an environmental slant.</p>

<p>You really can’t go wrong with any of the three. Arcadia, who posted above, has written about environmental science at Midd in many past posts, so I recommend a search of the forums. Bowdoin is also an excellent choice, and as you noted, it is particularly good for marine science. (Somewhat more unusually, it is also good for arctic studies.) </p>

<p>Cornell may seem large, but it is heavily compartmentalized, so it may feel smaller than you think, and its earth science program is one of the more under-enrolled majors at Cornell. If you liked Bowdoin’s coastal center, you should check out Cornell’s Shoals lab.</p>

<p>Without further info, I don’t think you’ll get much helpful feedback. For example, have you visited any of the three, and if so, which ones did you like? Finances should also be a factor - how do their financial aid packages compare?</p>

12

<p>The finances ended up being pretty much the same…which makes the decision even harder!</p>

13

<p>Bump. Decision time is coming!</p>

14

<p>i wouldn’t recommend cornell. flip a coin between bowdoin and middlebury if you truly don’t have a preference. this is where you decide from your gut. any difference between the two is immaterial to your future.</p>

15

<p>So why not Cornell, exactly? I prefer a smaller school, but I am just interested in hearing your opinion on the matter.</p>

<p>So, Bowdoin and midd are more or less interchangeable? Interesting. I kind of got that impression on campus even.</p>

16

<p>I would go with Cornell. Your 2 LACs can’t compare with the breadth of offerings in your area of interest. There are at least 4 areas of concentration plus a student designed one in Env. Science and Sustainability. Look at the Atkinson Center for a Sustainable Future for example -
[Atkinson</a> Center for a Sustainable Future - Research - Environment](<a href=“http://www.sustainablefuture.cornell.edu/research/environment.php]Atkinson”>http://www.sustainablefuture.cornell.edu/research/environment.php)
How much time have you spent looking at the department websites and course catalogs? If you had more time you could email the department head at each of the schools and explain your dilemma. They could provide valuable insight.
As for the size, a university may seem big from the outside but once you are on campus and know people in your dorm and start meeting people in your major, it doesn’t feel so big any more.
Of your schools, I would go with Bowdoin as my second choice. If you have an interest in marine science, at least that one is close to the ocean and has their own coastal studies center [Coastal</a> Studies Center (Bowdoin, Coastal Studies Center)](<a href=“http://www.bowdoin.edu/coastal-studies-center/]Coastal”>Schiller Coastal Studies Center | Bowdoin College)
So I think that gives it a big advantage of Midd.
Please let us know what you decide ;)</p>

17

<p>Another vote for Cornell here. The depth and breadth of the combined offerings of the various bio/enviro related programs offered there are not matched at your other options. Read each institution’s course catalogue, and you will see differences that matter to you.</p>

18

<p>Your incoming class at Cornell would be 3,500 students (significantly larger than the entire student bodies of Middlebury and Bowdoin). Of course there will be more course selection at Cornell–they need to meet the requirements of 14,000 undergrads and 7,000 grad students. More doesn’t always mean better. Middlebury and Bowdoin will offer a more intimate learning experience where you won’t simply be a face in the crowd. As for Middlebury’s strong reputation in environmental studies, it’s well documented. Do a search. Simply having the opportunity to study under Bill McKibben would sway me.</p>

19

<p>I went to Bowdoin and then Cornell for law school. The undergrad experience at Bowdoin is exceptional, and I would choose it over Cornell. Middlebury is similar, but Bowdoin’s location is better IMO because I prefer the coast to the mountains.</p>

20

<p>When I was deciding between Middlebury and Bowdoin, I gave a lot of thought to the coast vs. mountain thing. I had a very romantic notion of living near the rugged Maine coast, talking long walks along the shore to clear my head. When I visited, I realized that the coast is not far from Bowdoin, but you can’t see it from campus (unless you’re on the top floor of the Coles Tower). I don’t think the majority of Bowdoin students spend a lot of time by the water, especially during the cold and wet winter months. At Middlebury, you’re surrounded by mountains. They’re a permanent and powerful presence everywhere on campus. </p>

<p>In the morning, the sun rises over the rounded peaks of the Green Mountains. At sunset, look west to see a spectacular sunset over the jagged Adirondacks. If you want to do aquatic research, Lake Champlain is close by and you can take advantage of Middlebury’s brand new research vessel. If you want a real coastal experience, you can spend your junior year doing SEA Semester or study in a coastal area.</p>