Cornell vs. University of Chicago

College Search & Selection
61

<p>I can't sit around and lurk while exchanges like this are going on:</p>

<p>Poster A said:</p>

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<p>To which Poster B responded:</p>

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<p>Don't be so quick to fall into the trap here. What you need to do is stand back and do your best to separate the school from the admissions propaganda (preferably by ignoring hearsay and talking to people who have actually attended the school). Frankly, I find it disturbing that a highly selective institution would so consciously push the idea of intellectualism as a 'unique' characteristic for them have -- which I guess would be sort of like one of their students claiming that if you like reading (or talking or breathing), then you might think about applying. (And it's not only the University of Chicago that is guilty of this; see Swarthmore College, in particular.) Or do they wish to insinuate that students who do not choose to (or who can't) enroll at their school are anti-intellectual? (Sounds like a delightful school, by the way.)</p>

<p>Go right ahead -- choose a place so you can pat yourself on the back and tell yourself that you are attending an 'intellectual' college, or someplace whose website looks particularly elegant (which therefore means it is more intellectually substantive than another place whose front page appears aesthetically challenged). Somewhere in the back of your mind, though, I hope you'll come to the realization that 'a life of the mind' (or however someone phrased it) doesn't come pre-packaged; it is not acquired just by virtue of enrolling at Such-and-Such University.</p>

<p>I just fail to see how the prestige-currying, smoke-and-mirrors operation that is admissions propaganda will benefit a highly selective institution; for instance, if you believe that Chicago gets self-selected matriculants primarily owing to the peculiarity of their propaganda machine, those would be exactly the students I would not want to see enroll. Instead, I think one would do well to consider those places which do not advertise themselves so loftily, but rather whose commitment to 'a life of the mind' is apparent merely from observing what is going on and experiencing their respective communities. (It's your job to figure out what those places are.) In other words, if I were smart enough, I don't think I'd want someone banging me over the head with their admissions sophistry.</p>

<p>Or as someone sensible once said, 'If you've got it, you don't need to flaunt it'.</p>

<p>In conclusion, all I can say is best of luck on y'all's college visits, and be sure to bring your bull-**** detectors with you.</p>

<p>(Sorry for spewing all that cynical vitriol -- I didn't mean to direct it at any one in particular, by the way. But honestly, over-the-top admissions sloganry and the types of sentiment it spawns just make me want to snap, sometimes; this is one of those times.)</p>

62

<p>Well, what you state as hearsay certainly is not at least to me as I noted my son is currently attending Chicago and has related his experiences. The original poster asked a question to compare and contrast these two institutions and that is what is being done in this thread for better or worse. Finally I would suggest that the majority of students at Chicago would laugh at this entire thread because they did not select this school for prestige, campus, slogans, weather, food, sports teams etc.,they selected it for whatever reason, this enviroment they felt they could best prosper and learn or as some might put it, "Pursue the life of the mind".</p>

63

<p>Barrett, you seem like an intelligent person, but don't read too far into the posts. Of course I am not going to decide which college I will go to based on College Confidential alone. Similarly, I obviously won't make up my mind based on the web page. This isn't supposed to be a thread about people fighting over which is better or who is making preposterous statements about certain colleges. Lighten up! Anyone who takes the colleges admissions (and moreover, college admissions forums) too seriously risks being too judgmental about a certain type of college. "Life of the mind" is no more offensive than the caring and sharing attitude of "Any person, any study." (Which seems more fitting to a community college.) </p>

<p>On the other hand, I agree that we need to filter propaganda from fact. All colleges spin; it’s what they do. That being said, I am always glad to see a few devil’s advocates on College Confidential!</p>

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<p>Unfortunately barett, there are only a select few schools which do not need a "propaganda machine" and advertise themselves. For every school except these 6-7 so colleges, they have to pick marketing strategies and stick with them to attract students. You seem to forget that it's a business as well, and if Chicago did not aggressively advertise they would fall behind in the game compared to other schools.</p>

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<p>Collegehelp writes: "In the paper entitled "A Revealed Preference Ranking of US Colleges and Universities", Cornell is ranked 15 and Chicago 27. ...What do you make of it?"</p>

<p>The methodology shown in that paper shows that schools in the 15 to 27 range are very tightly clustered. The drop-off from Harvard at number one to Yale at number 2 is 62 "elo" points; the difference between Harvard and the number 4 school (Cal Tech) is 168 "elo" points. By contrast, only 132 "elo" points separate Cornell at number 15 from Chicago at 27.</p>

66

<p>Jerew, Chicago and Cornell are so different, it should not be too difficult making up your mind.</p>

<p>Cornell has 14,000 undergrads and 5,000 graduate students. It has a lively and spirited campus in a small college town setting. Chicago has 4,000 undergrads and 8,000 graduate students. It is located in a run-down suburb of America's second or third biggest city. As far as undergraduate experience goes, they offer completely opposite things. </p>

<p>I was faced with a similar decision in the Spring of 1992. I had two chose between those two schools and ended up going to another school altogether...but Cornell was scratched off the list before Chicago primarily because in my major (Economics), Chicago was significantly better and because I found Cornell too remote. </p>

<p>In your case, I would say Cornell has a slight advantage over Chicago in terms of academics. You seem torn between Engineering and Physics...and Cornell has the edge in both (Chicago does not even have an Engineering department). For pre-law, both schools have the reputation to give you the breaks and exposure you need to put yourself in a good positon. Both Cornell and Chicago have top Law schools, but Chicago's Law school is considered a little better. And since Law schools usually give preference to their own undergrads, Chicago may be a better choice for pre-law. </p>

<p>But it really boils down to whether or not you mind seclusion. If you don't mind it, Cornell should be your first choice. On the other hand, if you do not like living in a rural area, Chicago may be a better choice. Finally, if you want to be on a campus where undergraduates rule and social life is happening, I would probably pick Cornell over Chicago. But if you do not care about it, then both schools will provide you with great opportunities to learn.</p>

<p>Personally, I consider both Chicago and Cornell to be top 15 universities nationally...so you really cannot go wrong. I think you should visit both campuses before deciding.</p>

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<p>In other words: Do you see how meaningless these mantras actually are?</p>

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<p>Yeah, I can see your point. I guess it really boils down to the visit. Unfortunately, I will have only about one or two weeks to decide, so I am trying to get a head start now by hearing various opinions. So you would choose Cornell? Why? Thanks for the words of wisdom!</p>

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<p>regarding Cornell's "rural" setting...
Yes, compared to Chicago, Ithaca is a very small town
But, technically, Ithaca is a small city and has many of the amenities of a city (good restaurants, shopping malls, bookstores, movie houses, live theater, etc.)
It isn't some whistlestop in the middle of a cornfield.
This has been a lively debate. I can understand the appeal of both Chicago and Cornell. They offer a clear and distinct choice. Each has advantages. I would personally prefer Cornell for most areas of study, but not all. I think the "life of the mind" and "any person, any study" characterizations have some validity but you will also find pure intellectuals at Cornell and diverse interests at Chicago. The differences are more matters of style than quality, and, as greybeard points out, they are different by degrees.</p>

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<p>Wow, this is really good debate. Truth be told, all my HPSM letters came back unfavorably, so I am off to Ithaca on the 14th and off to Chicago the 21st. It will be close, but here are factors I will consider. Any opinions on these would be greatly appreciated!</p>

<ol>
<li>Distance- Chicago is much closer to Minnesota than Cornell</li>
<li>Money- I got 0 from Chicago for a 46k cost! Didn't hear from Cornell yet</li>
<li>Cornell Commitment accepted me as a Cornell Tradition Fellow, which has a little money attached.</li>
<li>Atmosphere- I am from a small town and don't care about a lot of parties, bars, clubs, etc. I just don't.</li>
<li>Faculty/Research-Which one will give me more?</li>
<li>Living-What is the difference between day to day life issues, such as food, dorms, things to do, campus aesthetics, etc.</li>
<li>Major-I was interested in Cornell's Engineering Physics, something that Chicago does not have. However, the physics and engineering physics majors are so close together that they really shouldn't be the only factor in my decision.</li>
<li>Being accepted EA, I would say that I am most familiar with Chicago. I feel like my heart is in it. Chicago seems to be more unique instead of a regular college like Cornell.</li>
</ol>

<p>That said, I would love to hear more comments. Believe me, I have read them all! I will also share my two cents as I visit and learn.</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

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<p>jerew - I can only report to you what I perceive from my daughter's experience during her first year at UChicago.
1. Contrary to some of the reports in this discussion, she has found UChicago to be pretty social. Granted there are not a lot of frat parties, but she seems to socialize four to five nights a week, some at frat parties, some at apartment parties, much in the dorms. Like any other college, there are alcohol and some drugs -- but probably not as much of either as at other places. There is a lot of socializing in the dorm, if you want it. If you don't, that's cool too, apparently.
2. She makes great use of the City -- going downtown about once a week, to jazz clubs, theaters, movies, to meet friends from Northwestern, etc.
3. She works hard, but not to the extent that she can't maintain a regular life. She has mixed feelings about the core curriculum, but, on the whole, and particularly this quarter, is finding the courses increasingly more interesting. And, as advertised, virtually all of her classes had between 15 and 20 students and are taught by associate professors or full professors.
4. She likes a lot of the students. While the school does seem to have more of its share of intellectually-motivated sorts, it has mostly a lot of regular, intelligent sorts, some nice, some odd, just like the real world. What it doesn't seem to have is a lot of cliques. People seem to get along just fine.
5. She's found it easy to get involved in extra-curricular activities.
I hope that this is helpful. Good luck with your decision. You have two great schools from which to choose.</p>

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<p>I would just visit both schools. It's very clear that there is some bias in the posts on this thread.</p>

<p>BTW: Maybe it's just me, but Chicago has seemed to be colder than Ithaca the past couple of winters.</p>

73

<p>id pick Cornell</p>

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<p>"Chicago has 4,000 undergrads and 8,000 graduate students. It is located in a run-down suburb of America's second or third biggest city."</p>

<p>Hyde Park is nowhere near the suburbs. You'd have to drive at least a good half hour to reach either the west or south suburbs. It is not run-down in the least, it is just as nice as Evanston or Cambridge. Granted, it is surrounded by bad neighborhoods, but Hyde Park in itself is a very nice neighborhood and is pretty well insulated from any of the dangers of 63rd street or MLK Drive and beyond. Which, of course, isn't a place you'd get shot anyway, if you weren't being stupid. It's no worse of a neighborhood than where UPenn is located.</p>

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<p>You'll be equally successful wherever you go. VISIT VISIT VISIT and compare financial aid packages if money is an issue.</p>

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<p>Ahh, and there is the kicker. I just got my Cornell Financial Aid package in...</p>

<p>UIUC cost- 36,000 no aid</p>

<p>Chicago cost- 46,125 no aid</p>

<p>Cornell cost- 43,866 1800 Employment (on campus?) 4000 Cornell Tradition Freshman Fellowship</p>

<p>I am leaving out loans, as they are all unsubsidized...</p>