Cornell vs UPenn vs. Tufts for computer science

College Search & Selection
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I am currently exploring options as I apply to college, and over the next week I am considering ED as well as RD. I plan to major in computer science, either as a BS or a BSE. I have some questions as I compare the computer science experience at Cornell, UPenn, and Tufts. In particular I am trying to get a better sense of the culture at computer science for these schools. Here are my questions:

  1. I am a hard academic worker and fully expect to work hard, I know the workload will be high, and I am capable of studying well on my own as well as with others. It is very important to me to get good grades. I enjoy being with friends but I am not a partier. However, I am concerned about an intensely pressured, competitive, cutthroat environment. I am concerned about students being unfriendly and competitive with each other rather than friendly, and I am concerned about an environment which is so competitive that there are many nights without sleep and it is difficult to get As. How difficult is it to get As, and does grade deflation happen?

  2. From what I hear, housing at all three of these schools can be difficult. Is it possible to get safe, comfortable, reasonably nearby housing as an upperclassman? And at Cornell, it sounds like Collegetown housing for upperclassmen is pretty poor - in some threads I have even seen the term “sub-slum”. Also, how do students in Ithaca get to class up on the hill, especially in the snow?

  3. Penn and Tufts have cities behind them, but what opportunities are there for academic-year jobs and internships in the Ithaca area, for a student without a car?

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Cornell > Penn >> Tufts for CS. At every school, you’ll find students who are collaborative and those who are competitive, it just depends on who you choose to associate yourself with.

  1. Both Cornell and Penn don't have grade inflation (not necessarily grade deflation,) so expect to work hard----CS is a difficult major though, so it's not necessarily going to be easier at one school vs. another, unless you're looking for a school with more student-friendly grading policies (like Brown with no +/-, although I'm obviously biased b/c I go here.) Grading in college is also VERY different from high school, so that does account for some of the criticism surrounding grading (most students aren't used to not always getting As.)
  2. Both Penn and Tufts are in large, urban cities. Crime happens everywhere, so it's up to you to be cognizant of your surroundings. Most universities have shuttle systems that are only for their students, so that can be one way to get around the city. Ithaca's much smaller, but the same goes as for Penn and Tufts: always be aware of your surroundings.

Snow isn’t an Ithaca issue, it’s a Northeast issue. If you’re from an area of the country that doesn’t see snow, just know that there’s little to no definition of a “snow-day:” you’re expected to go to school (attendance can be optional for some classes, but that’s another story) whether rain or shine, barring certain circumstances. You’ll likely invest in winter gear, and schools will likely plow the roads, use rock salt etc.

  1. Cornell's a major research university, so as long as you're proactive and show interest, you'll be able to find research opportunities with faculty. An advantage of CS internships is that they can be remote, and Cornell has a strong alumni network across the country to help you find these. There will likely be on-campus jobs as well, for reference, my school keeps posting student jobs related to CS (whether with IT, an academic department etc.)

Most students not from the East coast don’t have a car, and many universities don’t allow freshmen to even bring one to campus. Again, most universities have a shuttle system, and there’s the public transit system as well.

If after further research you’ve decided that one of these three is your top choice, then I highly, highly recommend applying ED, as long as ALL of the following are true:

  1. You LOVE your ED school and would 110% attend if admitted.
  2. You're extremely confident you can present a well thought out and crafted application by the ED deadline, which can be found on the admissions website.
  3. You and your family can afford your ED school if admitted (run the financial aid calculators if applicable, but keep in mind that Tufts, while meeting your full need, is need-AWARE i.e. your need is taken into account during the admissions process, though to what extent only Admissions knows.)

Hope that helps! Good luck with admissions!

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Cornell is the best of these three academically for CS

Cornell is intense but I wouldn’t say it was cutthroat. You have high achieving students who work hard but the competition is internal, not external.

Cornell does a great job of snow removal. No issues ever getting around campus, including climbing the slope (I lived in west campus three or my four years).

I’ve never heard college town described as slum like. There are apartments for every budget All of my off campus apartments were just fine.

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Thanks for both replies! On the topic of Tufts, it’s also interesting that their ED acceptance rate last year was actually much lower than their overall acceptance rate. So harder to get in ED!

Is there grade deflation at Tufts?

Good to know about Collegetown being fine? For the students who live below the Cornell hill, do they get to class by shuttle bus? Or mostly walk? I will definitely not have a car.

PikachuRocks15, are you suggesting that Tufts’ knowledge that you are applying for FA might affect their willingness to admit you? Interesting, I thought colleges now prided themselves on having need-blind admissions.

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I walked to class. There is a bus but I never rode it once at Cornell. Also no car. If anything, parking is a pia at Cornell so not having a car is actually easier.

Freshman all live on north campus so you wont’ have to worry about the slope freshman year at all. If you really don’t wan an uphill walk, you can try to live in one of the dorms on “south campus” sophomore year, or live in a co-op or Greek house.

“Just fine” does not equal “fine” ; )

Here’s an example of one of the newer off campus apartments in Collegetown: http://collegetownterraceithaca.com/apartments.php

1 Like
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Thank you! That helps, nice apartment. I knew intellectually that the thousands of students at Cornell must find decent housing, but other things you hear can scare you…

I guess my biggest concern has to do with the academics. Again, I’m willing to work hard and I’m academically very motivated. But some of the posts I’ve read about intense pressure at weed-out classes, and the near-impossibility of getting As in CS at Cornell, concern me. Would appreciate any final thoughts about that.

7

Lots of technology jobs in the Boston area re: Tufts. Then again both my spouse and I have been/were in tech a long time and there are few Tufts CS graduates I’ve run across. Don’t know why. But my spouse also has grown several businesses and has never had anyone who went there that I know of. ( He might have mentioned it since we have a family connection to Tufts). Most of the businesses we worked in tech we’re well known and large so well represented by the various CS programs nearby.

This could also be that the preference is often given to tech schools like MIT, etc. or programs where the skills are specialized. I honestly don’t know. Maybe someone can comment. I honestly didn’t even know Tufts had a CS dept. Perhaps that’s it. Is it fairly new ( last 10 years?) Small in size?

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CS is going to be tough anywhere. I don’t think Cornell any more so, especially compared to Penn and Tufts which attracts the same high achieving students.

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It’s usually, but not always, the schools with the highest endowments (or small class sizes, or a combination of both) that can afford to be need-blind AND meet full need. Some, like Tulane, are need-blind but do not meet your full need; while others, like WashU and Tufts, are need-AWARE but meet your full need if admitted. This is because the schools’ financial aid budgets are limited, so they have to consider financial need during the admissions process so they don’t over-spend and run into a deficit.

The following article from the Tufts Daily explains it in further detail, though keep in mind that it is an opinion-editorial: https://tuftsdaily.com/opinion/2020/02/05/funding-future-need-blind-admissions/

Hope that helps!

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Ok, thank you for all that information including the article and link. I had no idea Tufts admission was not need-blind. And yes, Tufts does have computer science, both in its Arts and Sciences and its Engineering Schools. I have no idea what the program was like in earlier days, but now it’s considered very good. Probably not up there with the really top programs., though, I guess.

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I’d look carefully at all programs including hiring, internships and size. It’s a huge investment on your part even with FA so you want to have the best experience AND the best results long term.

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Tufts seems like the odd one out. Apparently, they offer a CS major, but they aren’t really known for that and it’s more of a liberal arts college. Consequently, the post-grad recruiting and industry connections may be weaker than at the other two.

For example, many of the large tech companies will actively recruit Cornell CS grads, not so much Tufts.

13

Cornell CS starting salaries are insane. 2018 median $108,000 with one dude raking in $170,00 as a starting salary, absolutely insane.

Don’t know much about the other schools, sorry

https://www.engineering.cornell.edu/sites/default/files/departments/corporate/Industry%20Partners%20pdf’s/UG%20Employer%20Sector%20by%20Major%20inc%20salary-VD.pdf

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Gradschoolkid2- a city kid all her life- is loving life in Ithaca. She has a car, but takes the Cornell bus to campus b/c parking is indeed (as @momofsenior1 so pithily put it) a pia. It’s a great system.

Cornell is, indeed, intense, but the gradschoolkid (who is TAing in the engineering school) says it’s just b/c the workload is so heavy- she says she doesn’t see students competing (in a negative way) with each other.

15

My daughter is currently in CS at Cornell. It is currently tied for 5th in the nation for their CS program with UIUC, GA Tech, and I think U-Washington is the other. She works her butt off but loves it.

We are not from the East Coast. A car is absolutely not necessary and as someone else above said, it is a PITA to have one there. All freshmen live in North campus. Housing for freshmen is guaranteed and not an issue. Sophomores usually live in frats, sororities or dorms. Only a few live off campus and that’s because they got a crap lottery spot and either don’t want to live in a lousy dorm, or because their lottery spot is bad won’t get the type of room they want or to live with their friends because of it. This year obviously, thinks have shaken out quite differently.

College town is THE place to live, but it is pricey. Off campus housing is NOT cheap, so if you decide to apply to and get into Cornell and attend, expect to pay a lot in rent. In collegetown for an apartment for next year we will be paying $1,200 a month. Each kid won’t even have their own bathroom. Research pays off when it comes to landlords as I wasn’t going to have her go with a crappy one and there are plenty. So that’s where you may have heard the term slum from. The slumlords! Not the apartments. If you live further out, you will pay less, but not like $500 less. Problem is you will still need to find a way to get to campus and the most popular is the bus, which means you need to be on the bus route, or if you have a car the tradeoff is parking, which can be expensive.

As for academics. I wouldn’t call it a cut throat environment but it can be competitive but there are also a lot of group assignments so you need to be prepared to collaborate and work together. Some students are not good at that which is also problematic. My daughter has friends that are very busy with all their courses and in groups where one person may work ahead because they don’t have much else of a life and then gets annoyed that the other people are busy with their other coursework. These are people that don’t know how to work collaboratively and need to learn or it will bite them later. There is grade deflation. Your transcript will literally have on it the median for the course each semester. That can be intimidating. I cannot imagine what it feels like for a student who is below median. It is not difficult to do well, but do not go in there expecting to get straight A’s. If you do, you’re probably setting yourself up. Most kids get their first C’s ever and then can’t handle it. We told our daughter to expect C’s. She surprised us by not getting any. Maybe that was the motivator. But C’s are ok too. It’s not necessary to get all A’s. Especially in CS. If you want to go to grad school like medical or law school different story, but expect to be challenged like you have never been before. My daughter was surprised by how unprepared a lot of students were and how poorly they do. Our high school really prepared students well.

As for jobs, the kids that work during the year really only do work study. It is very difficult to maintain a job and your studies, especially freshman year. One thing about freshman year, your courses are pretty much planned out with little flexibility for choice. I found this to be annoying. It reminded my of high school somewhat. They tell you whether you can take Physics based on your hs math coursework. If not, then you need to take Chemistry. Both take up an inordinate amount of time. Physics is 6x/week. Then usually a PE, the FWS, a CS or the EGNRI course, Seminar, and Math. If you don’t have many AP’s then usually one more course. I do not know how much time Chemistry takes up but it’s a huge weed out course. Mine did not have to suffer through it.

One other school of thought. You can go through Arts and Sciences for Computer Science and avoid some of that coursework and take slightly easier Math courses because while the math is the same, the curve is more generous because it is taken with the Arts and Science students not the Engineering.

As someone else said. If you’re not 110% on board, do not apply ED. This school is about 80k all in. If your health insurance doesn’t meet certain criteria, add another $3k plus to that number as well as it is mandatory you carry certain health insurance requirements or buy a plan from them.

Your best bet is to speak to a current student as they will give you the best information. Hope that helps. Feel free to message me if you have questions.

Good luck on your search!!