Costs are a joke

[BCEagle91]

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<p>Kmcmom13 just joined the conversation with a thoughtful response to
some of the themes of this thread. She brought her business to this
country. There is nothing “ugly” whatsoever in the things she said
or the way she said them. Therefore, the question “Are you an Ugly
Something?” seems ungracious to me.</p>

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<p>She would answer no, she is not. Therefore I’m not criticizing here.
That you would assume otherwise is puzzling.</p>

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<p>You may wish to quibble about the unprovability of certain “what-if
scenarios”; that’s fair enough. But this quote from kmcmom13 is
inarguable: “The ideas that made America strong came from vigorous
debate and people desiring a better life.” When people are
vigorously debating, they sometimes lose their cool. But even if
someone doesn’t state a case elegantly (or tactfully) that doesn’t
make his or her ideas wrong.</p>

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<p>So what? I said that we do engage in vigorous debate.</p>

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<p>I am an American citizen whose late husband was a permanent resident
(a UK citizen). He used to joke that even though he couldn’t vote
here, he liked to pretend he could. He loved living here, and
contributed to the country as a taxpayer, a scientist and a teacher
who helped a lot of US kids get over their fear of chemistry. He
occasionally criticized the country and occasionally made invidious
comparisons between his adopted and native country. I could take it!
(Except when he suggested something about the superiority of food in
his native land. Dude, what?)</p>

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<p>I spent five years in a public speaking club and took several
communications courses. You need to know your audience if you wish to
persuade. If you want to pretend to be a local, then you can pull
things off that would be harder as a foreigner. I think that life is
overall easier if you avoid deception (unless you’re using it as a
tactical or strategic device) as then you have to remember the details
of the deception forever including who you made it to.</p>

[absweetmarie]

<p>^^^
I didn’t say you were criticizing her. I said that the question “are you an Ugly Something?” seems ungracious to me. There’s no reason to ask. </p>

<p>I don’t have any idea how your final paragraph has anything to do with what I said about my late husband. As I noted, when he said he liked to “pretend” he could vote here, he meant it as a joke. He didn’t really try to pass himself off as a native; that would have been impossible with his East London accent.</p>

[BCEagle91]

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<p>I didn’t say you were criticizing her. I said that the question “are
you an Ugly Something?” seems ungracious to me. There’s no reason to
ask.</p>

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<p>This is a blunt discussion. I’m being blunt.</p>

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<p>I don’t have any idea how your final paragraph has anything to do
with what I said about my late husband. As I noted, when he said he
liked to “pretend” he could vote here, he meant it as a joke. He
didn’t really try to pass himself off as a native; that would have
been impossible with his East London accent.</p>

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<p>Must have been a while ago then. We have all kinds of accents where
I work. You just get used to them.</p>

[lerkin]

<p>absweetmarie,</p>

<p>you late husband was probably referring to Indian food :). </p>

<p>Everyone,</p>

<p>I think we all need to give Gaoui a break. I was a young immigrant myself many moons ago (20 years old when I moved to US). I grew up behind iron curtain, was part of discriminated against ethnic group and I absolutely loathed my home country. </p>

<p>When I moved here, even though I was happy for the opportunity, I was shocked by many negatives in US. Majority of my negatives had to do with food though (:)). One thing that was shocking to me is realization of how hard I would have to work to achieve my goals. </p>

<p>Also, it took me quite some time to accept that some things I used to being “free” in my country of origin are not free here (also, it takes an honest conversation with yourself to realize that nothing in this life is free). To give you an example, the health care in my country was free. However, the only health care that was more or less accessible to common people was family practice. Everything else was quite limited and included bribing to get access before a long line of people waiting to receive that care. I was shocked that I needed to buy insurance here (and I absolutely feel for people who do not have employer-sponsored plans). I think these are the things that bother Gaoui, although I completely disagree with the way she thinks we should be solving the problem.</p>

<p>I don’t remember going around and informing Americans about my thoughts, but I do remember discussing this with my fellow immigrant friends. Our thoughts were full of contradictions. On one hand we were happy not to be in our countries of origin, on the other hand we saw many negatives about American way of life. </p>

<p>Fast-forward to present day and here my friends and I are - completely changed individuals, embracing American way of life. We have changed in part because we have grown and in part because our environment influenced our way of thinking. </p>

<p>I see many parallels between Gaoui and me. She is full of contradictions, which she does not see. On one hand, she says that in Switzerland everyone gets a living wage, on the other hand she says she grew up poor (and it appears she grew up in Switzerland as in one of her posts she mentions getting certain grades in Switzerland’s college).</p>

<p>It is easy to be a bit more confrontational on this board than in real life. I am sure if you ever talk to her in person, she will be more open to at least try to understand your point of view and not so negative in her opinions. Plus, being younger than many of us and being outnumbered, she might feel the need to defend her point of view without considering your point of view.</p>

[DrGoogle]

<p>If costs are a joke, you can vote with your feed. My daughter will be applying to UK and Canada for colleges. Think of it as 3-year study abroad vs 1-year study abroad.</p>

[DrGoogle]

<p>Post #245, OOps, I meant feet not feed.</p>

[BCEagle91]

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<p>It is easy to be a bit more confrontational on this board than in real life.</p>

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<p>You can be far more offensive broadcasting than you can be in a one-on-one situation. In my mind, this person wanted a platform for broadcasting. She just couldn’t handle the response.</p>

<p>In general, I count the cost before getting into an argument, whether it’s in person or in a forum.</p>

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<p>I am sure if you ever talk to her in person, she will be more open to at least try to
understand your point of view and not so negative in her opinions.</p>

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<p>To talk to someone in person, there must be a level of respect from one to another or in both directions. In general, people lay up a foundation before talking about something confrontational. In many cases, you would not talk about a confrontational issue with someone because it would be offensive to them or improper. I talk about racism with other workers as we encounter it now and then but it’s not something that I’d talk about with people outside our race.</p>

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<p>Plus, being younger than many of us and being outnumbered, she might feel the need
to defend her point of view without considering your point of view. </p>

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<p>If you want to take on a forum, count the cost. I don’t see what age has to do with it. There are teenagers mature enough to be careful about what they say in person or on forums.</p>

[absweetmarie]

<p>Thank you, lerkin, for your perspective. And, no, my late husband was not sentimental about the Indian/Pakistani food so easily available in his homeland. It was a better brand of baked beans that he longed for!</p>

[TV4caster]

<p>Wow, am I glad I didn’t read this thread for a few days. I love a good philosophical debate but this has devolved even beyond the rhetoric of the initial pages. Now it isn’t even worth commenting on, other than to say that some of these posts are profoundly inane.</p>

[chocoholic]

<p>I think that 2 of the posters on this thread are one and the same person, …backing each other up, etc…</p>

<p>quite amusing</p>