<p>Ahh, see, some of the good stuff is wearing off on you! LOL</p>
<p>Sent from my DROID RAZR using CC</p>
<p>Haha yup, looks like it is!</p>
<p>" I really appreciate that you understand where I’m coming from."</p>
<p>I don’t agree with everything you said but I at least see where you are coming from on some points (even if you didn’t state it in the nicest way).</p>
<p>Haha thank you, that’s good enough for me. I know I can be pretty blunt sometimes, but I’m working on that 
Cheers</p>
<p>gaiou: I lived in europe and loved it when I was younger. (Spain) I loved the culture, language and everything about it. I traveled extensively to many countries, including Switzerland, which is beautiful in every aspect. However, while I was there if I ever said the things that you said, I know for a fact people would be extremely offended. It has nothing to do with you being right or wrong. Its your delivery. I think Mom2 would have been far more receptive to your comments if you said them nicely. I realize that you mentioned this is something that you need to work on and I can only agree. Like Mom2, I find your comments offensive. I don’t believe they are statements that open a debate in a politically correct manner. No quite the contrary, they bring about hostilty. If you want to say that we are arrogant then so be it. But I would never be well received in your homeland of Switzerland or any other country for that matter, if I went on the attack like you did and said the things you did. America is a very young and proud country. Its a melting pot. Nothing is perfect and I don’t pretend for a second to be thrilled with everything that happens in this country but at the end of the day I’m an American and I don’t appreciate the disrespect.</p>
<p>I don’t know about college in Latin America but it is no longer true, for decades now, that Europe put kids into tracks and only good graders get education. </p>
<p>All states of the EU have alternative ways to get higher education for free. Including ways to have vocational experiences counted, part time education at Unis, and through a combination of TV, internet, and mail (like in Australia).</p>
<p>But even in the EU, you have to ask to get the info.</p>
<p>I found mom2 missing respect for critical opinion as well as missing knowledge about details in relation to other countries and the US’s destructive ethnocentric attitudes on a global stage. Other countries have very similar problems. just slightly less severe. </p>
<p>It is disappointing how often in this country opinions seem to be derived based on dogmatic media presentation. Even the educational system here is mostly set up as a filtering system. Who ever makes it is more likely a willing, uncritical employee.</p>
<p>It does seem to get better in social sciences. Anthropology reaches European levels, but not in technically oriented fields. Here, critical thinking is not even part of the curriculum. Fortunately, I found a niche were critical thinking is still valued. Like other places, the US has positive developments, as long as corporations are kept at bay.</p>
<p>rudysch, where is the comment about Latin America coming from? I’m trying to figure out what you’re commenting on, but I don’t see it.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I have family in Switzerland and, as always, there are two sides to every story. The Swiss health insurance is expensive for a lot of people. My relatives pay the equivalent of 10K a year for their insurance. Not exactly free. The professional work environment is quite rigid, hierarchical, and sexist. Swiss women did not get the right to vote until the 1970s and it is still a very conservative society in gender terms. The assumption is that women will be home with the kids. There are not many women in positions of responsibility in the workplace, in comparison to the US. Also, Swiss society is relatively racist and insular. Can you imagine if a national political party in the US campaigned on outlawing the building of minarets?</p>
<p>There are very nice aspects to Switzerland, obviously, and it is well worth visiting, but I must close with this witticism from The Third Man: 500 years of democracy and peace, and what has Switzerland given the world? The cuckoo clock. (And to that, I add, places for dodgy dictators and tax evaders to hide their money.)</p>
<p>Sorry about that romanigypsyeyes. I responded on the misled comment that the US educational system is better than in the EU because of students are supposedly be put on a fixed track (mom2). This is wrong. The mention of Latin America came from another thread. My apologies to put that in. I have a connection to Brazil because I lived there and travel to other counties in South America as well. Middle class seem to have good access to education in most these countries but not so the poor, except on European islands in the Caribbean. But my knowledge is limited because I have done studies only on the Mexican school system.</p>
<p>What MJSue wrote about Switzerland healthcare cost fees and its heaven for tax evasion is quite true, I think. Also, the narrow minded culture is noticeable. </p>
<p>Still, even the lower classes seems to be covered in their healthcare system. Taxes may be a big part to afford this. However, taxes in this case provide equity and shows solidarity and consideration for others. Of course some taxes are not as wisely spent.</p>
<p>I like your cuckoo clock comment. I hate that thing, but it’s funny. Nevertheless, considering the small size of the country, it had more patents granted per citizen than the US. By the way, Einstein developed his theory of special relativity in Switzerland. </p>
<p>Besides, it gives more than double for humanitarian help per capita than the US. And unlike the US, does not make it dependent on economic benefit or imposing moral values, e.g., AIDS help to Brazil when it takes on prude US view on sexual issues, which declined such arrogance and still was the first country in the world legally guaranteeing medical help for HIV infected citizens.</p>
<p>Back to Switzerland, the mountains are great.</p>
<p>I do admire Cuba giving as a poor country world-class healthcare coverage to their citizens. I really should check out their university in Havana. I imagine great education in my area of interest. Nevertheless, I just keep my EU citizenship and get health coverage in Europe in a bad case scenario (because of the precondition problems in the US). However, The US is good for basic health care and non-excluded conditions. Even though I felt compelled to study in order to get affordable healthcare coverage. </p>
<p>I like your idea with Canada gaiou. I love the people there and the way they organize their lives. Thanks</p>
<p>“The Swiss health insurance is expensive for a lot of people. My relatives pay the equivalent of 10K a year for their insurance. Not exactly free”</p>
<p>The health care in Switzerland may not be free, but at least it’s comprehensive and covers everyone, rich and poor alike. I pay around 200$ per month for my Swiss health care, which is not bad as it covers everything. Also, it is important to remember that people make much more money there than they do in the U.S (hell I was making 17$/hour working at McDonalds) so it also makes it easier to afford health care. Low-income people benefit from easy access to social services and subsides from the government if they can’t afford basic care as well.</p>
<p>“The professional work environment is quite rigid, hierarchical, and sexist. Swiss women did not get the right to vote until the 1970s and it is still a very conservative society in gender terms. The assumption is that women will be home with the kids. There are not many women in positions of responsibility in the workplace, in comparison to the US. Also, Swiss society is relatively racist and insular. Can you imagine if a national political party in the US campaigned on outlawing the building of minarets?”</p>
<p>I would have to agree with that, even though I don’t think women are really expected to stay at home with the kids anymore. Every woman in my family works full time and worked at least part time while raising kids. I really never felt it was sexist in the work environment, but that may depend on the person and the type of work you are in. People are certainly conservative there, more so than in the US overall, but they also don’t take it to the extreme and I doubt any political party would try to deny low-income women access to contraception for example.</p>
<p>“There are very nice aspects to Switzerland, obviously, and it is well worth visiting, but I must close with this witticism from The Third Man: 500 years of democracy and peace, and what has Switzerland given the world? The cuckoo clock. (And to that, I add, places for dodgy dictators and tax evaders to hide their money”</p>
<p>Actually, as Rudysh mentioned above, Switzerland gives more foreign aid per capita than the United States and they also have brought significant improvements to the world in terms of medical research, natural science and computer science (Switzerland developed the first well-thought compiled computer language - called “Pascal”). On a lighter note, let’s not forget about watches, great cheese and delicious chocolate!</p>
<p>gaiou37,</p>
<p>out of curiosity … While working at $17 per hour at McDonalds, how much did you pay for a Big Mac?</p>
<p>Also, why Canada and not back to Switzerland? </p>
<p>And lol about Pascal! The first language I learned back when having an email address was considered unique and cool. Do they still teach it at schools? :)</p>
<p>Oh yes pascal is taught as an example of computer language design. But I think the focus is now more an declarative computer languages for AI. </p>
<p>I also like to see more of the world. I have lived in Switzerland for 20 years, so I would rather go to a new place. Canada is especially interesting because the people are really nice there, and food quality is great. Prices are high but so are salaries. I can expect to make about $27 and hour as a TA (I am moving there to attend grad school). </p>
<p>And to answer your question, a Big Mac in Switzerland is around 5.50$, obviously way more expensive than in the U.S. This is exactly what I was trying to say: things are a lot more expensive in Switzerland (whether we are talking about food or health care), but people make more money so they can afford to pay more as well (and people who can’t are able to get help from the government). Furthermore, I do not believe that health care is cheaper in the U.S. According to the Kaiser Foundation, the average cost of a family policy offered by employers was $13,375 in 2009 (Source: Kaiser Family Foundation; Health Research & Educational Trust ).</p>
<p>Gaiou37,</p>
<p>I am not trying to pick on you. But can you answer the follow up questions for me, because I am not very familiar with Switzerland’s social system.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>How hard is it to receive specialty care? If you need a surgery, is there a waiting involved?</p></li>
<li><p>Are there currently talks about raising taxes/cutting benefits to pay for the system?</p></li>
<li><p>How much would you be making as a TA if you went back to Switzerland? How much of it would be left after you paid income taxes?</p></li>
<li><p>Is $5.50 before or after VAT (I am not sure if Switzerland has VAT)?</p></li>
<li><p>Let’s forget about low income range for now. How are hard work and smart choices rewarded in Switzerland? If you are an engineer, how much do you make? If are a manager of the engineering group how much do you make? What about VP?</p></li>
<li><p>Can you buy a house in Switzerland if you are a work for living (i.e. not independently wealthy)?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Paying people higher salaries does not always translate into them being able to be paid more because other costs rise as well.</p>
<p>If it were just that simple, we’d raise the minimum wage to $25 an hour and wipe out poverty. But, it’s not that simple. Once the unskilled are being paid $25/hr then those with modest skills would get paid $40…and so forth and so forth. Once minimum wage became that high, the price of everything else would sky-rocket.</p>
<p>You can’t compare Switzerland to the US. Switzerland controls its borders, etc. Countries with more of a melting pot will have more issues.</p>
<p>Mom2collegekids,</p>
<p>this is what I was trying to get at, when I asked my question. I don’t have the facts, but I also think that hard work, smart choice and risk taking is not rewarded as much in Switzerland as they are rewarded here. My hypothesis is that if we compare buying power of a professional here to a buying power power of the same professional in Switzerland, professional over here will have a much greater buying power. There will be less difference in standard of living between minimum wage worker and an engineer in Switzerland than here in US.</p>
<p>While some may argue it is a good thing, that good thing goes against the principals on which our country was founded. </p>
<p>Invention of Pascal notwithstanding, there is a reason why Switzerland did not produce that many innovations in comparison to United States (even if you adjust for difference in educated population). The success is not as rewarding there as it is here, which takes away from people’s drive. Why should I work hard to get $20 per hour, if I can do less for $17 per hour?</p>
<p>Comparing Switzerland to the US is like comparing a house cat to a lion. Both have their good and bad points.</p>
<p>Shall we try to re-focus on colleges?
</p>
<p>Actually, Canada has a higher percentage of college graduates than the USA. The United States has a higher percentage than all other countries besides Canada. However, if we subtracted the huge number of AA degrees that inflate the US numbers, I suspect we’d find that most other affluent nations make 4-year higher education available to roughly similar (maybe even higher) percentages of young adults at much lower personal cost. The trade-off, of course, is higher taxes.</p>
<p>([Tertiary</a> > Educational Attainment statistics - countries compared - NationMaster](<a href=“Countries Compared by Education > Educational attainment > Tertiary. International Statistics at NationMaster.com”>Countries Compared by Education > Educational attainment > Tertiary. International Statistics at NationMaster.com))</p>