<p>I lived in a small town outside of Cleveland, it was also 15 years ago so I’m sure things have changed. Either way its still all about embracing each place for what it is. Don’t hate.</p>
<p>Dungareedoll,</p>
<p>you are so right about embracing a place for what it is (or leaving if you cannot bring yourself to do that).</p>
<p>However, the jaywalking was happening here 15 years ago too. In fact, 15 years ago, I was one of those students ignoring the traffic light from my previous post to cross the street, while getting frustrated about the right turn later in the day while going home. Nowadays, I am just getting frustrated once a week when I pick my son from his math class at the U (no jaywalking for me anymore).</p>
<p>@mom2collegekids</p>
<p>I second that!
Lived in England and felt the pain of so many with strong vocations that had to forgo -forever- their dreamed careers because they did not pass certain pre-college tests. Didn’t pass it? Can’t be a doctor, anywhere! You may still have chances at nursing or if you are lucky, vet school. How is that for options?</p>
<p>M2C wrote- " The rich or affluent in this country are very generous and compassionate. You seem to think that rich people make their money by being unethical! This country is the most generous in terms of raising money for charities, disaster relief, etc."</p>
<p>I’m not sure sure about that. There is no doubt that the amount we give is higher than any other country. However, I am finding conflicting data about the rankings when the amounts are expressed as a percentage of GDP etc. Since we have by far the biggest economy in the world it would be hard for us not to be number one. </p>
<p>One study I read showed that much or our charity largesse comes from our huge amounts of church related giving. When that money was taken out we were 2nd to last of industrialized countries (202 out of 204 I think it was). </p>
<p>Another study was interesting to me in that it asked Americans what percentage of our budget went to foreign aid. The answer was 20%. The actual number was something like 1/6 of 1%. That is just another example of the misconceptions we have as a country.</p>
<p>OTOH- I have found a few studies that show we are quite generous but, like I said, a lot of it seems to be in the methodology that is employed.</p>
<p>^^^ “Another study was interesting to me in that it asked Americans what percentage of our budget went to foreign aid. The answer was 20%. The actual number was something like 1/6 of 1%. That is just another example of the misconceptions we have as a country” </p>
<p>Are you seriously talking about individual budgets or the governments? No offense but there is no way in hell I’m sending money on any kind of consisent basis to a foriegn country, especially when we have so many needy people in our own country. Charity starts at home. In special cases like the earthquake in Japan, I definitely would give to special collections or the earthquake in Haiti etc. But outside of that I’m not shocked that people don’t budget for that. </p>
<p>BTW how much do you give? You’re great at critiquing everyone, especially the so called rich and putting down this country, but I dont hear you doing any of these things. Rich or poor everyone should be able to contribute something, after all it all relative. So what do you do besides gripe at the injustices of this country? Have you ever lived anywhere else? Sometimes the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Things seem so nice just to find that what you’ve had all along is better.</p>
<p>Regarding statistics: our state is usually at the bottom when it comes to charitable donations - that is if you measure it by the amount that people claim as deductions on their tax returns. But it doesn’t measure time donated, amounts donated for those that claim the standard deduction and amounts donated to causes that don’t have IRS non-profit status.</p>
<p>Unfortunately many that do studies like to use the information that is easily available rather than do the hard work to measure things more accurately.</p>
<p>*One study I read showed that much or our charity largesse comes from our huge amounts of church related giving. When that money was taken out we were 2nd to last of industrialized countries (202 out of 204 I think it was). *</p>
<p>Why remove church-related giving? Our churches manage charitable orgns as well for the needy overseas as well as in the country. To remove church-related giving is misleading.</p>
<p>And, the fact that people are ignorant about the % of fed aid to int’l countries is irrelevant. I knew that as a % it is small. And, I wasn’t specifically talking about fed aid.</p>
<p>and the point is that gaiou seems to want to equate “being affluent” with being greedy, unethical, and selfish. that is classism and ugly …and not true. She’s fallen into the trap of thinking the lower classes are inherently morally and ethically superior, while the upper classes cheated to rise above. That is just BS.</p>
<p>“Why remove church-related giving? Our churches manage charitable orgns as well for the needy overseas as well as in the country. To remove church-related giving is misleading.”</p>
<p>That’s a great point. My guess is that the argument would be that church related giving could easily go to simply paying bills like the mortgage, electricity etc and not be used for outreach or charity. Maybe sort of like your contributions go a lot farther at a charity where 90% goes to programs vs one where 90% goes to overhead???</p>
<p>“And, the fact that people are ignorant about the % of fed aid to int’l countries is irrelevant. I knew that as a % it is small. And, I wasn’t specifically talking about fed aid.”</p>
<p>I know you weren’t talking about just fed aid. I brought up that stat only to show that people’s perceptions in this country are often very far from the truth. </p>
<p>“and the point is that gaiou seems to want to equate “being affluent” with being greedy, unethical, and selfish. that is classism and ugly …and not true.”</p>
<p>She (do we know they are a she?) never said that at all. She said something to the effect of American society being too greedy. I pointed out the article that showed affluent Americans are indeed less honest, greedier, and less ethical ‘on average’ than those who are less affluent. Therefore, since we are the most affluent society in the world we would have a higher percentage of people with those attributes. And it wasn’t just one study in that article, but many. You might not want to believe it, but it is not BS. It is a fact. </p>
<p>“She’s fallen into the trap of thinking the lower classes are inherently morally and ethically superior, while the upper classes cheated to rise above. That is just BS.”</p>
<p>She never said that at all. You are reading way too much into some of her comments.</p>
<p>"These articles and this thread make it sound as if the “rich” were the vast majority of the people in this country. Therefore, the vast majority are greedy, unethical and poorly behaved individuals, when in fact we are talking about a very small percentage of a very small percentage. "</p>
<p>It depends on your definition of ‘rich’. To some people from other countries our middle class and above would be rich. Also, those studies weren’t “looking at a very small percentage of a very small percentage”.</p>
<p>“Are you seriously talking about individual budgets or the governments? No offense but there is no way in hell I’m sending money on any kind of consisent basis to a foriegn country, especially when we have so many needy people in our own country. Charity starts at home. In special cases like the earthquake in Japan, I definitely would give to special collections or the earthquake in Haiti etc. But outside of that I’m not shocked that people don’t budget for that.”</p>
<p>‘I’ wasn’t talking about anything. The study talked about how Americans think our country spends so much on foreign aid when, in fact, we really don’t (or at least not to the extent people think we do).</p>
<p>“BTW how much do you give?”</p>
<p>That is irrelevant. I could be Bill Gates for all you know. I would also bet that there are people that if they went through my finances would think I am very generous. I also bet there would be people that thought I should give more. Personally, I think we give more than the average family, but that is just a guess. The point is that whatever the case it has nothing to do with the conversation. </p>
<p>“You’re great at critiquing everyone, especially the so called rich and putting down this country, but I dont hear you doing any of these things.”</p>
<p>LOL. I don’t critique everyone, or even the rich. In fact, I haven’t critiqued anyone. I was simply trying to point out some studies that showed those who were lambasting Gaiou as being totally off base should perhaps look more closely at the facts. </p>
<p>“So what do you do besides gripe at the injustices of this country? Have you ever lived anywhere else? Sometimes the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Things seem so nice just to find that what you’ve had all along is better.”</p>
<p>Wow…where to start. I haven’t griped ONE BIT about the injustices of this country. I love this country but unlike some on here I am not naive enough to think that we are perfect and that our way of doing things (both individually or collectively) is not always perfect. You couldn’t be more wrong with your statement about what I think or what I have said.</p>
<p>TV4Caster:</p>
<p>Thank you. It’s nice to finally see someone who has common sense here. And who knows how to read.</p>
<p>Once again its all in the delivery…If I’m off base then my apologies, just didn’t seem that way. Your comments seem all so negative. If you love this country then I guess it would just be nice to hear you say something in support of it. Thats all.</p>
<p>How about giving back to other countries what we have stolen on resources? And then use the money to subsidize our products and force the violated nations, with help from IFIs’ to impose “liberal” economy systems on them, to sell our subsidized, low quality farm products, and destroying their national markets along the way. Look at Jamaica and the banana, milk, and meat war. How the heck can anybody be surprised if they come here and want a portion of it back? Are you guys ever reading news besides American mass media?</p>
<p>First we destroy their livelihood to increase our living standard and then we pretend to help as long as the thumb screw is on and get even more out of them, after all with our overpowering economy and military (if they are not willingly give up their riches) we show them who deserves to own the world. Is nobody ashamed to buy their high living standard on the back of already suffering countries. </p>
<p>JUST GIVE BACK what you stole, people.</p>
<p>By the way, MY TEXT IS WORTH BEING OFFENDED BY.</p>
<p>The other defensive blaming games by oversensitive American moral illusions are based on people not reading what is actually said in the comments.</p>
<p>I thought somewhat educate students are here that have learned how to read correctly and when responding doing it argumentatively not dogmatically. </p>
<p>People like TV4caster and gaiou37 at least show democratic conversation skills. I pity this country where common sense and reading skills are so limited. No wonder that America has to refer to violence to make a point. Whoever has the biggest weapons is always right. I am so glad that immigrants are here to explain American power hungry consumers how to behave cooperatively.</p>
<p>Happy weekend all</p>
<p>I thought TV4Caster delivered his comments very well, he is way better at it than I am and not so blunt. People just get offended because someone dares to criticize their “so perfect” (according to them) country. Also, it seems negative because a lot of things ARE negative. This is not to say that there are no positive things, of course there are (I mentioned some of them in previous posts as well). Do I love the US? Obviously not. Do I think that there are amazing things to be found here? Of course. The diversity of people, cultures, food etc is just one example. </p>
<p>What truly bothers me is that people always say “this is the best country in the world” and will not even factor in the possibility that many things are messed up, they don’t believe any of the stuff I say and tell me I shouldn’t just “gobble” the things I hear from my sociology professors. However, my professors don’t teach me their opinions, they talk about facts and have scientific studies and statistics to back them up. I completely understand that Americans love their country, they certainly should because it’s their country and it makes total sense for people to be proud of where they’re from. But it’s also important to think critically and recognize what is dysfunctional so things can be done to improve the system.</p>
<p>Rudysh:</p>
<p>I completely agree with you. People will probably get offended by what you said because it’s very negative and honestly, many people don’t even know about these facts, but I am glad you brought up these points.</p>
<p>^I just read the last few pages of this thread.
I think it is very difficult for people to see clearly when it comes to their own societies, because they “don’t know what they don’t know” (myself included.)</p>
<p>It’s even more difficult not to idealize your own (land of lost content 
when living abroad. (Guilty as charged. Am a Canadian ex-pat living in U.S. It was a shock to the system at first, because things that seem inhumane to me are accepted de facto by many here who are accustomed to them, such as the wasteful health care system wherein it costs 30% more to argue about a bill, or a giant breech in the caliber AND MONEY SPENT to educate urban versus suburban children.)</p>
<p>I frequently see many of the aspects these studies refer to with regard to a level of self-absorption and/or reluctance to accept collective responsibility cooperatively in the American psyche – BUT I also see the equally prolific genuine kindness, good intent and a desire to pragmatically contribute to society. </p>
<p>For those interested in constitutional study, the American notion of freedom is indeed different in flavor than other countries, and nets a very different notion of social justice, IMHO. In Canadian jurisprudence, for example, there is the notion of the Oakes test, which weights the “collective objectives of society” against individual rights and freedoms, with the goal to balance each based on degree of prospective harm versus infringement on freedom. In other words, your individual rights exist in the CONTEXT of the larger collective right; they correlate. In Canada, this approach CAN net some pretty intrusive governmental meddling, and of course, notoriously high taxes (although truly at the end of the day when you add decent healthcare costs into the picture, you net about the same at the end of the day in the middle class in terms of cash and lifestyle…)</p>
<p>IT seems to me at times that true to its scope, America swings to BOTH extremes in terms of rights, kind of like a giant, unregulated teeter totter that just can’t find the balance in the middle.</p>
<p>Other countries have proven that it MAKES SENSE to educate our children at an early age, provide uniformity in curriculae and systemic educational environment; to provide healthcare and a social safety net in order to stabilize society, reduce crime, increase capability and access, reduce teen pregnancy, poverty, drug abuse, etc. </p>
<p>But at the same that doesn’t mean to give token money stupidly, which seems to happen, albeit erratically, with inefficient programming. (Eg. housing bubble/freddie mac/fanny mae; banking bailouts;) NOR does complete capitalist freedom really net any gains for the 99% of us wage slaves or small businesses – eg.consider the phenoms of dis or de-regulated and predatory banking; not even having direct control of the treasury, the consistently outrageous influence of private enterprise lobbyists on core societal legislation including environment, FDA, food inspection, public health policy…)</p>
<p>So really, America is beautiful and terrible all in one, and there’s really nowhere like it on earth ;)</p>
<p>kmcmom13,</p>
<p>if this board was a facebook I would “like” your post.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Here’s the thing, gaiou37, echoing Dungareedoll’s point about “delivery”: Suggesting that people who do not agree with you don’t know how to read and lack common sense is discourteous. That kind of tone does not support civil disagreement. When you use that tone, it makes it difficult for people to hear what you have to say. I’ve learned this from hard experience. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve tried hard to share my opinion—which is often the correct point of view, I assure you ;)—respectfully and with an open mind. Forget, for a minute, that TV4caster agrees with you on some points. Look, instead, at how he DISAGREES with other people. He does not insult them. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are trying to be funny with comments like the quote above. It’s not funny, though. It’s really not. It makes you come across as ill-mannered and rude. If that is not how you really are, you might consider whether you want to convey a persona in these posts that is at odds with the person you are in real life.</p>
<p>I’m sorry but some people really misread some of my posts. As TV4Caster pointed out, some people read way too much into my comments. If they actually paid attention and weren’t so oversensitive to my critique of their country, they would see that I have a point.</p>
<p>Maybe this comes from the fact that I don’t get offended easily, so I may not always realize that other people may get offended at the things I say. However, I do think (as Rudysh pointed out) that oftentimes here in America people are oversensitive and get offended too easily (I cannot believe how many people get offended by “sexually explicit” things or a raised middle finger during the super bowl for example; seriously, they even blur out animals’ genital parts on television because I guess Americans are offended by it or something lol). </p>
<p>This is just weird for me. In Europe, the way I talked was never a problem. I also like to use sarcasm, which seems to upset many people in America. I guess I will have to make an effort if I don’t want to offend people here.</p>
<p>“He does not insult them”</p>
<p>Who did I insult here? Seriously? I don’t understand how I actually insulted individuals on this forum. I said negative things about the United States, how is that insulting anyone? If you identify so much with your country that you actually feel insulted when I critique it, then it’s your issue, not mine.</p>