<p>I'm a junior and I would like to know if I have a shot at Harvard admission. My GPA is about 3.5 and my rank is 87 out of 698 (I have horrible ADHD and once I finally got my medicine last year I jumped up 69 ranks so I'll probably be in the 30s area), my SAT score is probably going to be anywhere from 1800-2300, considering I made a 176 on my PSAT sophomore year and I'm a great essay writer. My uncle is alumni there, but I am first generation, if that helps my chances. As for community service I will have probably 200ish hours by the beginning of senior year. I am also in band, track, power lifting, a history club, and football (just finished my first varsity season at middle linebacker:)). I am in 2 AP classes and 3 Pre-AP classes, next year I will have 4-5 AP classes including my 4th year of spanish. Thanks alot!</p>
<p>Okay, reality check. The answer is no. Having a 176 on your PSAT might get you 1800 on the SAT, but you would be pushing it to imagine 1900 or higher. Your GPA is not strong enough either, but if your class rank is jumping up to 30th out of 698, that is not bad. There are plenty of schools that will want you, but Harvard is an incredible long shot. Personally, I think you would be wasting your application fee. The reason I say this is because Harvard is extremely highly selective. Even students with 2300 and 4.0 don’t always get accepted. They are looking for high leadership, very strong academics (very close to 4.0) with strong course rigor (the hardest classes you can take and getting A’s in nearly all of them). Putting in your hours for community service is meaningless to Harvard if you haven’t been leading the effort in a significant way or if you didn’t save a small 3rd world country. If you are a national ranked swimmer or athlete, or your music composition won a national award, they may allow a little leeway on the GPA, but you still have to sit in classes all day for 4 years with brilliant people with high motivation. Look at colleges that match your strengths and where they would appreciate your GPA and SAT scores … Harvard would not.</p>
<p>The cold, hard truth is, Harvard could populate its freshman class ten times over without admitting students who have your grades and test scores. I’m afraid I don’t think you’re competitive. I do agree with Snowflake that you’ll be a desirable applicant at many institutions–just not Harvard or its peers.</p>
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<p>I’m also quite puzzled by your reasoning here. You jumped from about 155 to about 90 out of 700, which is good. But moving up in class rank is hardly linear. You can’t move up in class rank unless somebody currently ranked above you does worse than you by enough that you can overtake him or her. In the middle of the pack, this is possible. But at the top of the class, those people get very, very good grades. Even if your grades are as good as theirs, you won’t pass them. I don’t see how you can realistically predict you’ll crack the top 10%. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but I am saying it’s not completely within your power to control whether you will.</p>
<p>Top 10 percent will be no problem, it’s only 17 away and I’m getting better grades with more AP classes and I just jumped 18 ranks in one semester.</p>
<p>Sometimes I think CC needs the reality check. Just because some people can’t jump 300 points between test dates doesn’t mean nobody can. Also, he said he has adhd, which I’m sure would allow for extended time for testing. He didn’t really say whether he had extra time on the PSAT or not. </p>
<p>I jumped around 210 points between 5 months and about 2 days of study the day before. Note, however, that I did not really learn anything in these 5 months that could have helped me in any way on the SAT. If he practices as much as some of the CCers on here, surely he could reach the 2100s by October of 2012.</p>
<p>P.S. don’t listen to some of these pompous uppitty nerds man. Sometimes, all you see is jerks that pass themselves off as the creme de la creme and condescend towards others/motivate others. Give it a shot, and just maybe, you could have a chance at Harvard. Oh yeah, do your subject tests! That’s what kept me from applying to most of the top schools. Sad sad day for WHATDAMCFUDGE. Believe in yourself!</p>
<p>Sent from my Desire HD using CC App</p>
<p>WHATDAM … You are right, he can move his SAT up, but realistically, he needs to have 3 things change to even have a chance. I am a graduate of a state school … no uppity up. I’m basing my information on what college counselors have posted elsewhere in this forum and from parents who actually have kids that were accepted and rejected at these schools. My own D was only waitlisted at Columbia and her stats were far stronger on all fronts, so that’s another datapoint I have for a Harvard type of school. The reality is that it takes more to get into Harvard and other highly selective schools than high SATs.</p>
<p>I have to agree with SnowflakeVT. The top kids at our local HS have been waitlisted but not admitted to Harvard. These are NMF, valedictorian, amazing accomplishment kids. One classmate of my D was composing and publishing music in HS, and being commissioned to write pieces for choral groups. He was waitlisted.</p>
<p>My S is a HS senior this year, and I don’t plan to waste the app fee on any Ivys. His GPA, PSAT, test scores, etc are higher than yours; class rank in top 5%, has received state awards and gone on to national competitions. And I don’t think he’d have a chance at Harvard, nor do I think it would be the best fit for him.</p>
<p>2000 admits - 35,000 applications.</p>
<p>While I do agree that Harvard and all the other Ivy league schools are highly selective, I highly disagree on some CCers being so blunt about it and telling people not to do things at what they could have a once in a lifetime chance to do. If he doesn’t need to pay for the application fee for whatever reason it may be, than it doesn’t hurt him at all to give it a shot. Who knows, he might win the lottery and get accepted at Harvard or another ivy league. </p>
<p>Think about all the people that have not applied to Harvard or other ivies because people have told them they would never be accepted. What if they would have been accepted my some chance? It doesn’t hurt to give it a shot. This doesn’t only apply to schools though; this can include many aspects of life such as work and private life. </p>
<p>In short, just be nice about how you say things and what you tell others. Don’t instill doubts on everyone that is not perfect or hasn’t saved a small country from famine or imminent destruction.</p>
<p>/end of rant</p>
<p>Sent from my Desire HD using CC App</p>
<p>WHAT, I have two problems with what you’ve just said.</p>
<p>First, I think you have really mischaracterized my own post above and SnowflakeVT’s. I won’t presume to speak for Snowflake, but I resent it. I wasn’t trying to abuse drakebot, and I don’t think I was “uppity,” either. I did say, frankly, that there will be tens of thousands of applicants to Harvard who present better high school qualifications than drakebot’s. And, make no mistake,* there will be tens of thousands of them*; as texaspg pointed out, only a couple of thousand of them will be admitted. Realistically, if you are one of the top few students in your high school–often, one of the top few students in recent years–you may have a chance at Harvard, but if you aren’t, you don’t. This has been my experience as an alumni interviewer; other alums on CC who interview for Harvard or one of its peer institutions say the same thing. (In fact, I’ve kind of cribbed my wording here from another frequent poster.) But, WHAT, be fair: both Snowflake and I said that drakebot probably has a lot of options, but Harvard isn’t going to be one one of them. Because, honestly, it isn’t.</p>
<p>Second, I think the kind of Hail Mary application you’re advocating is simply ill advised. It won’t be successful, but, just for grins, suppose it were. What would happen then? A student who gets admitted this way will be 1600th out of 1600 in his class, in a college where every single thing–from Organic Chemistry to working at the campus radio station–is intensely competitive. This student will be competing all day, every day, with classmates who, academically speaking, can eat his lunch. Instead of having an enriching college career in a college or university where he can be truly successful, this person will spend four years scraping by and feeling demoralized. I guarantee it. Because I’m telling you, Harvard is frequently demoralizing for the people who really should get in, the people who aren’t Hail Mary applicants. I know that people who don’t go to Harvard like to portray Harvard people as arrogant. The reality is usually quite the opposite: Harvard humbles almost everybody. If you spend four years at a place like Harvard always believing you’re the smartest person in the room, it’s a good bet that you aren’t, and you never have been.</p>
<p>This is the advice I’d give my own son or daughter.</p>
<p>^How do you figure that Harvard is humbling? You could be the last in your class at Harvard and still arrogant because you think you are better than everybody else in the world not at Harvard. And if you do happen to be in the mid-range or top of your Harvard classes, the chances are you will be extremely arrogant since, by your own standards, you can eat everyone’s lunch in the whole world. </p>
<p>And are you sure you are not overplaying the competition just a little bit? I’m just curious if you went to Harvard or if you are just assuming it’s that demoralizing. If you went to Harvard (or heard this from Harvard students), then your advice is spot on.</p>
<p>I said that 176 PSAT was from my sophomore year. I’m waiting for my junior PSAT scores right now. It was pretty easy and I might get National Merit. And I have other qualities that I’m hoping will help me (alcoholic dad, great essays and poems, reccommendation letters, ect.) besides grades because in all honesty Harvard hardly looks at GPA compared to rank and size. And no I didn’t get extra time on either PSAT but I took a PSAT/SAT/ACT preparation class for 5 months so I’m assuming my PSAT is going to shoot up and based on that so will my SAT.</p>
<p>Yes, Wizkid, I went to Harvard. Twenty-five-plus years ago, when it was somewhat less competitive; something like 15% of applicants got in my year. And my description is really a picture of Harvard College in the early and mid '80s. I can’t imagine it’s any cozier now.</p>
<p>And I didn’t say that’s my goal or if I plan on going there at all; I’m just seeing how people think my options are. Another thing, "What We Seek</p>
<p>Applicants can distinguish themselves for admission in a number of ways. Some show unusual academic promise through experience or achievements in study or research. Many are “well rounded” and have contributed in various ways to the lives of their schools or communities. Others are “well lopsided” with demonstrated excellence in a particular endeavoracademic, extracurricular or otherwise. Still others bring perspectives formed by unusual personal circumstances or experiences.</p>
<p>Academic accomplishment in high school is important, but we also seek people with enthusiasm, creativity and strength of character.</p>
<p>Most admitted students rank in the top 1015 percent of their graduating classes, having taken the most rigorous secondary school curriculum available to them.
" ((This is straight from the website)) I’m hoping to classify as “well-rounded”</p>
<p>In that case, maybe Harvard isn’t at desirable as it is made out to be lol.</p>
<p>^Or, maybe Sikorsky and all are just exasperated with people who continuously make threads on if they’re going to get into Harvard or if their scores are good enough 
The first time you read those, you answer it nicely, trying to be helpful. But everything after the hundredth time becomes a little tiring.</p>
<p>@drakebot–I know what it says on Harvard Admissions’ web page. You asked people whether they think you could get in. I gave you my honest answer, with no sugar coating. What can I tell you? I’ve interviewed an awful lot of *very *good students in the past several years, and a couple who were truly extraordinary. They haven’t gotten in. The opinion I gave is the only one I’ve got. But I wish you luck, wherever you apply and wherever you go to college.</p>
<p>@wizkid–funny you should say that. Recently I had a similar conversation with another high school student via private message. I told her that I had not encouraged my own child to apply to Harvard, and she said, “So, I guess Harvard really isn’t all that?” I had to tell her, “Oh, no! Harvard is all that and more. But it is also very hard on the ego. Before you go there, you’re one of the smartest people your friends know. But once you get there, almost everywhere you go and everything you do, you find people who know more than you know, think faster and deeper than you think, and do whatever you do better than you’re doing it.” It really is all that. It’s just, you can’t get all that without paying a price for it!</p>
<p>Thanks alot:)</p>
<p>^^Haha. When I said not as desirable, I didn’t mean that the people there weren’t extremely intelligent and that the prestige and all that isn’t genuine. But a lot of intelligent people wouldn’t enjoy the demoralizingly competitive environment. Many would prefer something more casual.</p>
<p>Oh, well then, quite right. It isn’t for everyone.</p>
<p>And as I’ve gotten older, I have really come to appreciate that even though there are very few places that compare to Harvard, Harvard isn’t the be-all and the end-all. You can get a thorough, life-changing education a lot of other places. And I think this is even truer now than it was in past generations. While the number of American high school seniors has ballooned and the range of opportunities for high school students has virtually exploded, the size of the entering class at fancy-shmancy colleges has pretty much remained the same. This means that there are a lot more highly qualified applicants than there used to be, and they can’t all go to HYP, Duke, Stanford, Williams, MIT, et al. As a result, a lot of really fantastic freshmen now go to colleges that were everybody’s second-choice a generation ago. Many of those colleges have become top students’ top choices, and now a lot of colleges that were really mediocre 30 or 50 years ago have become exciting, vital institutions where good students enroll happily and good professors teach happily. It’s like the old saying, “A rising tide lifts all the boats.”</p>