<p>^I suppose that the 5.5 courses could be Pass/Fail? That seems rather a lot.</p>
<p>I thought it was alot. I think I took 4 (semester) courses pass/fail, but I also took 16 for grades. :)</p>
<p>My school is weird, we have 3 terms a year, so we take 3 classes a term, but still 9 classes a year. </p>
<p>I think it's a good load. Yes, there are fewer classes, but each is condensed into 10 weeks, so they are fairly intense.</p>
<p>All our classes are 1 credit. I do not really understand other schools' credit systems.</p>
<p>A while back, I compared an engineering curriculum offered at a large state U to that offered at a small LAC. Both schools have strong engineering programs and both programs are ABET. What I found was that, while 38 courses were required for graduation at the LAC, 46 courses were required at the large state U. The differences in what the 'extra' courses were at the large state U were surprising. They were: 2 additional courses in the Arts/Humanities/Social Studies, two additional courses in Writing (one offered by the English department and one offered through the Engineering Department), two courses in General Health Activities (basically physical education, the LAC didn't require any), one course in Physics, and one technical course. I found it interesting that, for an engineering major, the large state U provided more of a liberal arts education than the LAC.</p>
<p>Although some of the course titles differed, the remaining courses covered the same material at both schools.</p>
<p>For my son to graduate with an engineering degree, he is required to take 3 humanities and 2 social science classes (or vice versa), plus 2 writing classes. That is, if he doesn't clep out with AP credits. There is also a 24,000 word writing requirement to graduate, which means that even if he does clep out of some of the humanities classes, he still needs to pick up classes that include a writing component, which eliminates all the engineering, science, and math, so he's back to taking humanities, social studies, or english classes no matter what.</p>
<p>doubleplay- Is your son at an LAC or a state U? Also, many engineering students choose courses, such as economics, for their social studies requirements. I think economics 'fits in' with the engineering psyche.</p>
<p>The state u I spoke about in my prior post required a total of 18 hours (6 courses) of social studies/humanities/art courses compared to 4 courses at the LAC. Basically, the LAC had no arts requirement. The State U had a 9 hours (3 courses) of writing requirement compared to the 1 course at the LAC. I just found it interesting.</p>
<p>karp, I think you'll find anomalies anywhere you look. I wouldn't put too much stock in them.</p>
<p>curmudgeon-
I agree...it might just be an anomoly. I just found it interesting back when we were researching colleges.</p>
<p>First thing I thought of was that it is pretty rare for an LAC to even offer a 4 year engineering degree. LOL. That already puts it in a small group of schools. Many others have a 3-2 engineering program. My D's school has a general one with WashU and a specific one with UMemphis and maybe one with UTennessee.</p>
<p>The three LACs that I know have engineering programs are Trinity, Bucknell, and Lafayette. I also think Smith has a general-type engineering program.</p>
<p>karp,
His is a public U. The rub is, if he signs up for something like economics, and it does not fill part of the writing requirement, he's still on the hook for another class that does. So students have to be careful, if they are in a major that typically does not involve writing, to choose their gen-ed humanities and social sciences carefully so they get those words in. There's also an international requirement at his U. It's almost like you have to think of each class as serving double or triple duty. You've hit paydirt when you get in a class that gives you international credit, at least 6,000 words, and meets a social science or humanities requirement.</p>
<p>doubleplay -
S's uni also has a US and International Cultures requirement which can be filled with the required Humanities, Social Studies, and Arts requirements. However, although some courses are listed, for example, as Humanities, US cultures, and International Cultures, they can only be used as Humanities and EITHER US cultures or International Cultures. (No triple duty allowed...arghhh.) One of the six courses have to have to fit into the US cultures category and one into the International Cultures category. Otherwise, an extra course needs to be taken.</p>
<p>The writing courses are a 200 level English class and a 400 major specific writing class. They are mandatory requirements and cannot be filled with writing intensive Humanities/Social Studies/Arts courses.</p>
<p>I think alot of engineering programs at state Us have adopted a more intensive liberal arts requirement over the years. When I was in E school, back when the dinosaurs roamed, the social science and humanities requirement was only 12 hours (4 courses). With advisor permission, another course, such as accounting could be substituted. And....there was only one three hour writing course required.</p>
<p>The teachers have more time to read papers, so maybe they give more??</p>
<p>Before we go down the road of finding LACs with engineering, see these threads:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=407589%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=407589</a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=396467%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=396467</a></p>
<p>It's interesting to see how varied graduation requirements, course loads, etc can be! To summarize: LACs ---- 32-34 courses for a degree but U's ---- somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 courses. That's a difference of maybe 8 courses! So, do more courses make for a more rigorous education or do those who take fewer courses have the opportunity to get more relevance from their classes??? It's interesting to comtemplate but, we'll NEVER agree on the better plan!!</p>
<p>rutgermamma:</p>
<p>For proper counting, one needs to factor in whether college is on the quarter (trimester) or semeser system. For example, single variate Frosh Calc is typically a three quarter or two semester sequence. Thus, at UCLA (quarter system) it counts for three classes, but at Cal-Berkelely (semester) it counts for two. If you don't adjust for the calendar differences, it appears that UCLA requires more courses than does Cal.</p>
<p>I don't know how widespread this is, but I've noticed a stronger correlation between faculty teaching loads and what is considered a full course load for students than an LAC/University divide. </p>
<p>At institutions I'm familiar with where the teaching load is 4-5 courses (or fewer)/year, students tend to take 4 courses, though the courses can often have heavy research/work expectations. As faculty loads creep up to 6 or higher, normal student loads seem to be 5 or even 6 courses, but often with less time committment from both student and faculty per course.</p>
<p>Just a bit of research from quick visits to websites: Full Course Loads: Penn~4 (5 are permitted, but not the norm); Duke~4; Colgate~4; UNC~4-6; Michigan~4-6; Texas~4-5; Maryland~4-5; Penn State~4-6. 4 seems to be a minimum at the larger Us in order to be considered a full-time student, but many students take more. LACs tend to discourage more than 4. Also, most Us vary tuition/fees based on what courses are chosen, whereas, most LACs don't. All on semester systems, I believe. This was a very quick search--Correct me if I got it wrong! Interesting topic! </p>
<p>Adigal, your point may be a valid one--LACs do seem to focus on improving writing skills.</p>
<p>When my son was a freshman engineer at a large public university, he took the required 5 classes (each 3 to 5 hours/week), one with a zero credit lab (4 hours), and a required weekly zero credit seminar (2 hours). He had to be in class for 24 hours each week for a total of 17 credits. Brutal! No wonder so many kids transfer out of engineering. I think if they gave the kids enough credit for the time they put in, it would be over the university limit. Maybe engineering should be five years.</p>
<p>DS's schedule at Private top25 U:
Diff Equations
Org. Chem
Org Lab
Physics
Physics lab
Linguistics
Asian History
Yep, he's busy. Students at his college tend to take lots of hours, and there is no extra charge for taking more hours.</p>