Canuckguy, to explain the rapid rise in the F:M ratio among high scorers on the SAT M before age 12 o3 13, followed by stagnation for some years: I think it became socially acceptable for young women to be moderately good in mathematics, at middle school age. It hasn’t become socially acceptable yet for them to be exceptionally good in mathematics (written as the parent of a young woman, and having seen what she went through).
@QuantMech, that’s unfortunately true about young women with exceptional math strengths. In general, I think it’s easy for both M&F to flutter their eyes and claim that they’re just no good at math, and it is accepted in a way that saying you’re no good at reading wouldn’t be. Things will change, but I think that this is something that belongs on John Oliver’s Last Week Tonight show in the “How Is This Still A Thing?” segment.
Disclosure: I have two daughters, one with a naturally intuitive mathematical mind, the other who had to work hard to understand statistics. I also have two sons, with a similar distribution of math talent. In no case was it acceptable in our home to be proudly innumerate.
@Iglooo I have daughters. For over 20 years there was not a day passed that I have not thought about their progress and whether I have done all I could as a parent. I share your sentiment.
@QuantMech My experience matches that of @lxnayBob. Women are not supposed to be good in math? I do not see it in my circle, or that of my children’s circle.
@Data10 I like the Davis study, but a lot more research is needed to isolate the variables. My suspicion is that personality type may be the culprit here. Are the female students leaving STEM lack “tenacity”? Are the male faculty members that these students are unsuccessful with “rigid and conservative”? Doing some personality inventory on these two groups would be the next step that I would take. Just think Zhou in CMU, and Bock’s response to her switch. If he were the prof, I doubt Zhou would do well in his class.
I see it in my children’s circle. I listened to a boy lecturing my daughter about how easy the SAT math section was, and then brag that he scored a 670. He went on to explain how he was able to solve some of the problems. She listened to all of this and demured that she “did okay” when he eventually asked her score. She did not want him to be embarrassed. She had been perfect on all three math sections and scored an 800.
My D at Carnegie Mellon is a math and stats peer tutor as well an academic counselor to students who need help organizing their time. There are between 5-8 students selected each year for these positions. Students are asked to apply based on their math grades and then go through an extensive interview process. Once selected, there is a 5 week class that they need to pass. Interestingly enough, of the 8 selected this year, 5 are women. So there are girls rockin’ it at CMU in math…
Oh, yes, to Much2learn’s post! Female students can certainly be very good in mathematics. It’s just that there is a social cost for it, in many American high schools. It’s possible to hide an SAT score. It’s more difficult to hide math placement. Think 9th grade girl in AP Calc BC.
^^The boy could be betting that the odds are with him, and lost. We are right back to the idea that statistics work well for groups, but not so great for individuals. He could also be “peacocking”, practicing up for later on.
@QuantMech I think you may have misread the graph. What it shows is the change in the ratio of male to female top math performers in 5 year blocks, among different 12-13 year olds, over time. If I take the mid-point of 1991-1995, it would be 1993. Subtract 12/13 years from that, I would get 1980 there about. So something happened to the American demographics starting at around 1978 or so. It looks like Martians landed …what could that be? Can anyone think of something?
Interesting–and sorry, I have not actually looked at the graph yet. I will take a look at it.
If I had to guess (in the complete absence of having examined the data!!), the change would be associated with the surge in AP Calculus in American high schools. I think that happened about that time, on a broad national scale. My spouse, who grew up in a suburb that was better off than mine socio-economically, had AP calculus in his high school in the early 1970’s. My high school did not have it until sometime after 1975.
My theory is this: It’s okay socially for girls to be in the top normal math class in high school. If that class shifts from pre-calc to AP calc, then suddenly there is a fraction of girls’ talent that does not need to be hidden or suppressed.
This theory is semi-testable: If multi-variable calculus became the top normal high-school math class, then you might see another jump in girls’ performance.
I know that there are a lot of exceptions, and a lot of fiercely independent young women who do not care in any way about social status. I am sure that there are some fortunate young women who have high social status despite being really, really good at math. Those situations are not universal, though, and they depend on good fortune in the immediate environment, to a certain extent.
@quantmech “I am sure that there are some fortunate young women who have high social status despite being really, really good at math.”
My daughter is very sociable and deals with this by not talking about it ever. Basically, she believes she has to hide it. There seems to be some social dynamic that girls can’t talk about being good at math, but boys can.
CanuckGuy, QuantMech, et. al.–
The increase might dovetail with Title IX.
In the late 60s-early 70s, my high school did not have AP courses. Instead, those who were in the very highest academic track had the option of taking a course at the local state university or college during their senior year. I took 1st year calculus. I believe another girl did, as well. In contrast, it was even more rare for girls to advance in sports. Only the extraordinarily talented pursued any sport, and the two in the entire high school that I remember only did because their families provided private lessons or coaching. I don’t recall any female teams.
The scholar-athlete model for women can be a real positive. My son’s JuniorAdvisor (the Williams equivalent of a RA) his first year was a varsity swimmer and a math-econ double major. Her personal commitment was impressive.
I was further impressed by the large percentage of math majors at Williams. That department clearly has a commitment to both educating and supporting those in their discipline. Someone might check the percentage of women graduating with a major in math on that campus.
"My daughter is very sociable and deals with this by not talking about it ever. Basically, she believes she has to hide it. There seems to be some social dynamic that girls can’t talk about being good at math, but boys can. "
CTY saved my math talented daughter. I shudder to think of what her education would have been like if she’d hidden her math skills.
@ManhattenBoro Excellent catch. I think you are on to something. Personally, I suspect the US immigration laws changed in 1965 may be the real sleeper here.
After looking at this research paper on Wellesley College, especially the graph on page 191:
http://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/jep.28.3.189
I think I would be foolish not to ask for some sort of test of learning outcome if I were an employer.
There is a really interesting hypothesis, Canuckguy. I think your explanation may account for a significant part of the increase. It seems that multi-generational American males are also under-represented on US teams for the International Mathematical Olympiad, and have been for some number of years, according to the study published in the Monthly Notices of the American Mathematical Society.
I don’t mean to discourage young women from going into mathematics–quite the opposite. But I think that whenever one is looking at aggregate statistical data, it is important to consider the effect of cultural factors, even if individuals can successfully overcome the social pressures. Also, it is worthwhile for the parents of a girl who is talented in STEM fields to know that progress toward a STEM career will have its ups and downs for a young woman, even now.