While colleges might not have some ACT/SAT scores they surely will have some AP scores for example to help adcoms in their evaluations.
I really think that for the top colleges, over 50% of the applicants will have SAT/ACT scores as these top students are the ones that generally take the tests early, do well on them and are done by fall junior year (i.e. pre COVID).
The cream will rise to the top, score or no score…
I agree. I do wonder how the AP scores will be considered and how schools will look at APs that were taken last Spring. The colleges my son is applying is accepting them but is a 5 really the same as a 5 from the year before when it didn’t even test the full course material? Also, for a class like AP Calculus BC last year they eliminated the AB part of the AP test so the students didn’t get a subscore. It doesn’t really mean much but regardless it is a change.
I guess it is just a waiting game because who knows what is really in the AOs heads for some of these schools other than what we keep hearing and until the results are out, none of us know anything for certain or if what we hear is true!
What schools ask for AP scores? Or do colleges have access to AP scores? My D21 is the oldest and none of the schools she applied to asked for AP scores- as far as I know. I want to make sure I’m not missing something.
So assuming 4% admission rate, that means 40% will get admitted if they made to the committee.
On the common app there is a section for the AP scores where you list when you took them or are taking them and your scores. Then when you decide where you’re going you send the official scores in to your school to get the credit. Some schools make you pay for the credit, but you can decide which hours you want to pay for or not. One of my daughters had too many and she didn’t need all of them so we just left them sitting on her dashboard and she hasn’t claimed the credit per her advisor.
Most public universities take a 3 or better. There’s also no reason not to list all scores since a school sees that your kid took an AP course. If you don’t report it, then they will just assume you bombed. Why hide it?
AOs will not assume that a student who doesn’t report an AP test score bombed the test. Many students take an AP class and don’t take the test.
Often, AP scores are not even part of the holistic admissions evaluation, so students should do their research as to the policy at each of the schools they are applying to.
Agree. I’d only report 4s and 5s.
False.
If you take an AP class and do not take the exam, then you should report that information in the extra information section on the common app, or wherever it is provided for in the coalition. But, scores should be reported so as not to appear to hide anything.
At all the Ivies and T20 schools we spoke with and applied to, we were given this information and it did not affect any of the admissions. It is also just one more data point for schools to use in the admission process. They know which high schools generally generate certain scores also on tests as well.
But agree, they are rarely used in holistic admissions decisions, except this year we have been told they are being used as one measure, especially where students are not submitting SAT/ACT scores. Schools want as much information as possible and if an applicant isn’t submitting test scores, everything else unfortunately is being weighted more heavily.
that is not true. I’ve heard a number of AOs (even from highly ranked schools like Vanderbilt and Bowdoin and Princeton) say that they do NOT assume anything that is not on an app including AP scores. Maybe the student didn’t take the test for some reason. Our S19 didn’t take the Comp Sci AP - got an A in the class but was so uninterested in comp sci and had a heavy load of other classes that year so he didn’t study for it or take it. It gave him just a little more time to focus on his other classes. He did report his other AP scores on the Common App and we never once worried that AOs would wonder why that score was missing since we had been told missing AP scores are not assumed to be bad scores. AOs use what they’ve got in front of them.
We also asked a few AOs this year about not sending any scores even though we are in Illinois and most AOs know all kids in IL got an least one in-school SAT test this fall. Every single AO (Richmond, Colgate, Wake and more) told our D that they will not be expecting scores from all IL students and it was perfectly fine to send an app without a score. Again, they all said kids could opt out of that test (maybe they have someone immune compromised in their family) or maybe they took it and it doesn’t reflect how they are as a student. They said not to worry one BIT about not sending. They will use what they have (transcript with rigor and grades, where the student fits in the class for GPA, essays, recs, ECs etc)
You only restated what I previously said test scores. Colleges have made it clear that they are test optional and if someone doesn’t turn them in that is their choice, but if they don’t have a score taken or choose to not send them in then be prepared to have everything weighted more heavily. They more competitive schools have definitely affirmed that they will be considering rigor and grades especially more so.
Also, in regards to the AP tests. This is a separate issues than an optional test and as was discussed with numerous IVY AO’s, it was suggested if your student chose not to send something, then explain it in the extra information section, or if they were impacted by Covid (as you mention in re to someone being immune compromised which is justifiable) then put it in the Covid section. Schools want to know about these things, so that they can give someone the benefit of the doubt. One metric that does compare students as apples to apples unfortunately are the AP tests because not all AP classes are treated equally. An AP course at your IL high school may be considered completely different than an AP course at my IL high school. If our kids each apply to the same prestigious college that has never accepted anyone from either school, that unfortunately is going to be a measure they use (the AP score). It just is what it is, whether right or not. Some of it also goes to the teacher teaching the course also. We have lousy AP Physics C results because we have had a lousy Physics C teacher who just retired. This year we’re going to be all remote, that will impact AP scores and affect juniors most likely since as of now there are no plans for College Board to adapt any AP tests as they did last year. Maybe that will change maybe not. I don’t think there is anyone that can honestly say they have not been affected or impacted by Covid.
I’m glad it worked out for your son and he got into his first choice. This year is not 2 years ago, so really none of us know how they will handle it all when they get a number of students with the same stats and no scores and only an essay to differentiate. There are still some schools saying if you have a test score or have taken it, you better send it, even if it’s a PSAT. And nearly all seniors have a PSAT. My son has 2 like that. My hope would be at the end of the day they just make the decision to eliminate the ACT/SAT altogether so that all applications are considered equal in that regard and APs are really only then used for credit.
@homerdog 100.
@sjparent15 Do what you think best, but I would definitely not put down what these AOs recommended to you in the additional info. section: “if your student chose not to send something, then explain it in the extra information section.” No way. That section should hardly ever be used. You’re calling attention to something that isn’t an issue, and it comes off all wrong–like you’re a hypercompetitive applicant justifying a small issue that doesn’t matter. 99% of what I’ve seen written in the additional information section–however well- intentioned–sounds like an excuse.
“or if they were impacted by Covid (as you mention in re to someone being immune compromised which is justifiable) then put it in the Covid section.” Again, follow the advice that makes the most sense to you, but I would not write about this in the Common App. Covid prompt. As one of you pointed out, everyone has been affected by Covid. If you choose to answer that prompt (most of you shouldn’t), first ask yourself: Am I saying something here that lots of other people are probably saying? You probably are. Don’t write it.
It’s hard to talk to parents when you’re an AO. Parents are super sensitive about how they’ve chosen to advise their kids, they often don’t want to hear the truth, they get upset very easily about how the process is unfair, and many think they have some individual situation that makes them different. So AOs tell half-truths and try to put anxious parents at ease by saying things like: “Oh, don’t worry, we take everything into account. Just address that in the additional info section.”
In my experience, and lots of AOs expressed this when I was at Stanford, no one wants to read anything extra unless it’s truly an exceptional circumstance. Otherwise, you come off as someone who’s self-important and thinks they are the exception to the application and need more space to say more things than other applicants.
I’m sure I’ll get howled at for this one. But it’s my candid advice and I don’t want to see people make that mistake on their applications.
–MCS
We are hoping that the track record of our high school will help our test optional D21. Most of the schools she has applied to know her school and have accepted most or all students with or below her weighted GPA. Fingers crossed.
Agreed. D21 isn’t writing anything to explain missing scores. She’s presenting her case with what she is sending.
@homerdog That should be a huge help That is exactly what we’ve been seeing at our school. Kids have been getting into their reaches and now applying to bigger reaches, since they never thought they would’ve gotten into the first ones.
Also, someone else just told me money is being thrown at her daughter like crazy even though she has already decided where she’s going, they keep throwing more. One school the mom just told me (a Big 10 school) just offered her $40k more than the brother a few years ago. She said the daughter has exact same stats as her son and the same school her son attends is offering the $40k more to her. Crazy!
@MichaelCShort I assume you are talking about the self-report option in the app? I seem to remember College Board doesn’t let you pick which AP scores to send. It’s all or nothing.
Also, it’s odd to me that some of you think it’s strange that a student might not take the AP test for every class. Do you realize they cost $90 each? (If I’m remembering correctly). For a student taking 5 or 6 AP classes in a school year, that is not an insignificant amount (for most families), and I could see a lot of kids opting for a more practical number of tests to take. If your school district covers the cost for you, that’s fabulous, but that’s not the case for everyone.
This really should be a sticky- bravo for posting.
I am not/was not an AO, but I have done alumni interviewing for years (I know, not the same thing…) but you cannot believe the files some kids show up with. And proudly spread their “documents” all over the tiny table at Starbucks-- or the public library-- to read to me the “very important” supplements they included with their application.
It’s ok if your kid won the “Madeline Albright book award” at your HS and your kid doesn’t put in an addendum explaining how prestigious the award is. Adcom’s have heard of Madeline Albright, they see that you wrote a paper on Turkish diplomacy, it won an award. EOM as the kids say. I have seen a 12 page supplement filled with the minutia of HS life-- explaining the outcome of a track meet (Adcom’s know what a tie is), describing the Junior Musical which was Macbeth in song and dance (kid was in the chorus) and everyone’s favorite- explaining why the SAT scores went DOWN on the fourth try (a well known statistical phenomenon).
The last thing you want is to add another five pages working through your Covid issues. If you need to explain- be brief, be relevant, don’t apologize.
And have a robust list of safety and match schools “just in case” the Hail Mary Pass to the elites doesn’t pan out.
https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/exam-policies-guidelines/exam-fees says $95 for most tests; there is a $33 discount for those with financial need (so $62 in that case).
Comparison costs:
Although $95 or $62 can be a lot for families with limited financial means, it may still be worth it if the specific AP test can give advanced placement, subject credit, or credit units at the college the student eventually attends.
@ucbalumnus Yes, all of it is expensive. Yes, some kids manage to pay for lots of AP tests. I was commenting on why a student might opt to NOT pay for many (5? 6?) to take in the same year. We all know about college credit for AP scores.
@MichaelCShort I can actually agree with all of this wholeheartedly. I think many people have extenuating circumstances and stories to tell. I also believe in laying it all out there in your essays and/or your application and showing that you’re humble enough and not afraid to lay it out there and be exposed.
My daughter attends an very competitive Ivy. She earned a 3 on an AP Exam in her major. She was nervous about putting that on her Common App, but at the same time, she earned that score and she wasn’t going to be embarrassed by it either. Any other school she was accepted to she would have been able to take the credit. She also knew regardless she would be taking it over, even if it were a 5 since it were her major. She got stuck with the teacher that year that was new to the class and didn’t teach an entire unit on the AP exam. It bit her in the ass, but my daughter also probably could’ve self prepared better and didn’t. That’s on her. Obviously it didn’t matter.
In my son’s case for this year applying ED, he fortunately isn’t faced with any issues like that. He did use the extra info section but for two things only. 1. To define a summer school program he partook in this summer with one line and 2. One line to list his github page of computer science projects, since there is no where else in his application to showcase his work. He did not submit a resume for all programs so no other program would be aware of these two things unless they had the resume and only his ED school has that.
What my daughter learned a long time before college is that you don’t need to have all A’s. It’s ok to have a B+. It will not keep you out of an Ivy League. That lesson has actually been a huge lesson and served her well in college as she is under a lot less pressure than other students who actually have never received a grade less than an A before arriving there and then actually earn C’s or worse when they get there and are not prepared. No one should be afraid to show a weakness. My son also is turning in his ACT. It’s not a 36 and that’s ok too. Maybe he is the only non-36 his ED school will have. But if anything his application is genuine.
If there’s anything I’ve tried to teach my kids is that they’re no more special than joe shmo, except to me of course. 
so I take no offense at what you’ve said.
Are you joking? Who does that?
My son had his ED “interview” today on facetime. It was chill. Of cousre it has no bearing on his admittance or not, just for informative purposes only. The guy told him about his experience there, my son asked him some questions, didn’t brag as far as I know (better not have!!) and that was it. The whole point of those is to find out more about the school!! At least for this one.