<p>I've been looking at MSAR data for the last couple of hours. So at this point my head is spinning and I wonder how anyone can get into med school. What I thought were great stats (3.9 GPA 36 MCATS) seems to be just average or below average in a great number of schools. For example WashU median MCATs is 38 and GPA 3.9. So does that mean that WashU should not be on my son's list at all? Or would it just be considered a reach and he should still apply there? How does one go about making a reasonable list based on STATS only? What would be considered reaches and fits? I understand that there are no safeties. And how many of each should be on the list?</p>
<p>He can certainly apply, but it would definitely be a reach. That being said, if he has exceptional research/clinical experience, it might be less of a reach. Most people apply to anywhere from 14-30 schools. If he wants to apply to all the tippy top school, then he should add in more match-y schools to balance it out</p>
<p>He does have really good research that he’s been doing in school since his freshman year. He also has couple of summers of clinical research in a top 20 university hospital. And there is a chance that the paper he wrote this summer will be published. </p>
<p>3.9 and 36 ARE great stats lol. The problem is that you’re looking at Wash U which is literally the most competitive MD program in terms of stats. Those stats will make him competitive at a wide range of schools he just has to apply broadly</p>
<p>I’m new to this too but I’m pretty sure if you apply to a bunch of schools where you’re above the median, you should be successful.</p>
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What I thought were great stats (3.9 GPA 36 MCATS) seems to be just average or below average in a great number of schools. For example WashU median MCATs is 38 and GPA 3.9. So does that mean that WashU should not be on my son’s list at all? </p>
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<p>Your son has great stats.</p>
<p>WashU is known to be a “score whore”. You can either “go for it,” or accept the fact that unless he has some hook, that one school won’t likely accept your son.</p>
<p>Was his heart set on WashU? If not, forget it and focus on schools that will work.</p>
<p>as for an app list…</p>
<p>All SOMs that are in your home state.
Privates that range from top to bottom (excluding WashU if you think it would be a waste).<br>
All the private SOMs that are in the middle of the country (excluding WashU)
Maybe a couple of OOS publics that accept OOS students (however, check to see if those OOS students likely have ties to that state or are MD/XXX).
Unless you live in a west coast state, only apply to the privates there…which aren’t many. I think Stanford, USC, and Loma Linda are the only west coast SOMs, unless I’m forgetting a couple. Loma Linda seems to prefer SDA applicants or some other hooked applicants, if I remember correctly.</p>
<p>I’m guessing from your comments that you are mostly looking at tippy top rated SOMs. Unless your son is applying for MD/PhD program, I don’t see any reason to focus mostly on those. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that there really is no thing as a “bottom” SOM. All US MD schools are excellent. He will likely be happy to attend any of them. If his stats are strong for a particular SOM, he’ll likely get a merit award offer. And once he gets one merit offer, he’ll likely get others since at some point the other SOMs find out, and then they offer. </p>
<p>What is your home state? </p>
<p>Adding to above…
I’m guessing that if he applies early, he would likely get II’s from:</p>
<p>Loyola-Chicago
Creighton
SLU
Georgetown
GWU
MCW
Emory
Vandy is always a crapshoot, they often don’t even request secondaries, but his stats are worthy.
Tulane
Emory
Wake Forest
his home state SOMs</p>
<p>hopefully, the others here will comment on this list.</p>
<p>momworried: Is your son interested in continuing to do research as a part of his med school education? Some schools allow/encourage students to do research as part of their program without receiving a PhD.</p>
<p>@mom2collegekids our home state is New Jersey. He would prefer to stay as close to home as possible. That’s why I was looking at New York City schools yesterday. And most of them have very high stats where a 36 would be a median or right below. I guess that’s why I felt that way yesterday. Washu was not really on his list I just gave it as an example. Also I know that it’s an excellent school and my youngest will likely be there for an undergrad (applying now). So it would of been nice to have them both in one place. Our state has 3 in state med schools and he will of course be applying to all of them. But one of them prefers new MCATS so I don’t know how that’s going to go.<br>
But he will definitely be applying to other parts of the country because you can’t limit yourself to 1 region.<br>
@Wirefox he would love to continue with the research in med school but I don’t think he’s interested in MD/PHD program and I don’t think his stats are high enough. </p>
<p>I believe that 3.9/36 is great and I can base it on my D’s success with 3.98/35. Unless stats have moved drastically up in the past 3 years, these are great stats. D. applied to 8 schools and had 4 choices. She was rejected pre-interview from one, anohter ignored her application and she was put on hold at 2, withdrew later, she said that these did not match her very well. Not sure why anybody would panic with 3.9/36 instead of being very very proud and confident.
Now, I do not know anything about MD/PHD, D. was never interested. Among D’s 4 acceptances (out of 8, so 50% success), she had couple top 20s and actually had the hardest time deciding. Her decision flipped after Second Look event at both of her finalists.</p>
<p>…oh, how we made a list. Much easeir task than the UG list. But D’s first criteria (she refused to listen to anybody, including pre-med advisor) was location. So, we basically drew a circle on the map that did not exceed 5.5 hours of driving from home and than picked up schools that reasonably match her stats with couple outliers that predictably fell out, but everybody has a right to shoot for the skys. Anyway, they cannot make their personal impression without visiting and visiting is an interview, you do not have another chance. So one of the very highly ranked school just did not fit my D. (impression after interview) and since they put her on hold with many others (place is famous for putting high percentage on hold), she just withdrew to let somebody else a higher chance.</p>
<p>Add all the NYC SOMs-- he will probably have decent success even though the average numbers are high. Add Northwestern, U of C, Case, U Mich. Don’t apply to schools too far down the list unless he fits their mission statements (this is somewhat more difficult to figure out IMHO)-- his stats are high enough that they might not bite because they feel he won’t pick them. </p>
<p>Just a note of caution about Mom2’s suggestions–</p>
<p>GWU, Georgetown, and Tulane each average over 11,000 applications each cycle. (So does BU.) None of those can be considered safeties or guaranteed interviews. Each school is looking for a specific type profile in applicants and frequently will skip over high stats candidates in favor of a better mission match when tendering IIs.</p>
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<p>This is absolutely true. In fact, some med schools require students to complete a research-based thesis as part of their graduation requirements. Our state school does. </p>
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<p>JMO, but I think the NE region of the country (including some mid-Atlantic) just gets overwhelmed with high stats apps. The Calif high stats applicants have to swarm the NE because there aren’t enough seats for them in Calif. And, of course, the NE undergrads are already filled to the brim with high stats kids who are also applying to NE schools. </p>
<p>I don’t know how easily it is for an OOS student to get into a SUNY SOM. Keep in mind that the mission of most/all public SOMs is to educate future doctors for their state. Obviously there is no guarantees that their students will eventually practice there, but that’s the underlying thinking when it comes to acceptances. </p>
<p>Your son needs to expand his list a bit - geography wise - since he’s in the tri-state area.</p>
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<p>Very true. I didn’t mean to suggest that they would be safeties or even assured of II’s. Certainly take into account the number of apps. That said, the combo of a very high GPA and a very strong MCAT would certainly be better than many of those 11,000 apps, I would imagine. </p>
<p>Not to take away anything from good advice offered above, maybe also try SDN pre allopathic or what are my chances forums. Adcoms (like goro, gyngyn, lizzym etc) regularly respond to the kind of questions you are asking. </p>
<p>Oh, yes, definitely at least Northwestern and Case. I am sure about success there, I do not see why not.
I did not see your state of residence. If CA, be prepared to answer questions about driving in snow and general weather conditions in these very very snowy places. Sense of humor would be a great plus. Best wishes, be proud of your kid, great going!</p>