CS grad student

Graduate School
1

<p>Hi, new poster here, looking into computer science graduate school in NYC in 2012 (long story as to why NYC is most likely the only place I'd go to graduate schol). I suppose that most likely means Columbia and NYU, and I was wondering what kind of odds I had of getting into those schools. Ive read on here that it's not about the numbers, which is good and bad for me, because I have good work experience but bad references.</p>

<p>I feel like I have a very polarized resume for grad school, with some serious pros and some serious cons. I guess ill list them first and then explain</p>

<p>PROS
- CS GPA
- GRE
- post college career
- my plans for post grad school</p>

<p>CONS
- overall GPA
- references</p>

<p>so basically here's the deal. I am currently 25 and have been out of college for 4 years. My college GPA was 3.1, which breaks down into a 3.8 in CS classes, probably about a 3.0 in math related classes, and near a 2.0 in everything else. When I was in college, it was just a means to an end. Learning was not an important part of my college experience, so I was basically putting in minimum effort for maximum GPA. Not to say I didnt learn anything, because of course I did, but it just wasnt the top priority. Just to give you some idea, I literally couldnt even name a single one of my professors, so there is no way I could get a reference from a professor. I havent taken the GREs yet, but I am very solid at testing, and I plan on taking a prep course to try to maximize my grade, so I am expecting a very high GRE.</p>

<p>Post college I went to work at the Patent and Trademark Office, and have currently been there for 4 years, so I have significant patent law experience and significant knowledge of current patents in certain computer fields. My goal in going to grad school is to get back into patents in some way shape or form, with my top option being starting my own company with my own innovation, my second option being joining a creative team for a major company, and my third option being going into patent law.</p>

<p>So I guess here are my questions</p>

<p>1) What are my odds for getting into NYU/Columbia?
2) What can I do to increase those odds between now and the deadline for fall 2012 applications?
3) What do you suggest for references? (Im supposed to have 3, and I can probably get two bosses from work, but that seems sort of redundant, so I assume i'd just get one of them to do it.)</p>

2

<p>You need to reconnect with at least one and preferably two of your professors. You need academic references to discuss your academic preparation. A grad school app with no recommendation letters from professors will raise a red flag.</p>

<p>I would not worry about your overall GPA. They’re going to look at that strong major GPA pretty favorably.</p>

3

<p>Reconnect would be incorrect. I NEVER connected with my teachers, and by that I mean I barely even knew their name while I was in the class. I was very quiet in class and would only go to office hours when I had an issue, which in my CS classes was never because CS was easy to me.</p>

<p>I considered going and taking a college course for the sole purpose of getting a recommendation, but that seems very transparent, and also a very expensive proposition.</p>

<p>I dont know how the mission statement works, but I was considering saying in my mission statement exactly what type of student I used to be (thus making them understand why I dont have a recommendation), and that part of my mission is to be a different type of student now.</p>

<p>Also, I was hoping that being nearly 5 years out of college would be an at least semi legitimate reason for not having a recommendation.</p>

<p>Another possibility is that I can go back to my college (it is local), and speak to the CS dean, and explain my situation. I can tell him that I am looking for a recommendation, and I am willing to put work in however he sees fit (for example as a TA for a class, or to take a class) in order to show a teacher that I am worthy of a recommendation. I mean, if its transparent, I might as well bring it into the open. I just feel like if I spent all year trying to connect with my teacher, and then right at the end was like “yeah, i need a recommendation to NYU”, at least if I were the teacher I’d be like “oh, thats why he was so nice to me.”</p>

4

<p>“I dont know how the mission statement works, but I was considering saying in my mission statement exactly what type of student I used to be (thus making them understand why I dont have a recommendation), and that part of my mission is to be a different type of student now.”</p>

<p>I would not recommend this strategy. Are you applying to master’s or PhD programs? If you’re applying to PhD programs, they’ll want you to be focused on research and they want to assess your research potential. Your personal statement needs to say what you hope to accomplish as a researcher, where you want your career to go, and what you have done so far to demonstrate your commitment to the field. If you’re applying to master’s programs, research will be less important, but you still want to keep your personal statement focused on positive aspects of your application and not try to over-explain any negative aspects. </p>

<p>You absolutely need academic recommendations. Some of your professors may be willing to write one for you despite not remembering you, it’s actually not that uncommon. Typically they will look up your grade and ask you for your CV. It won’t be the greatest letter, but you need at least three for almost all programs these days, so if one or two are somewhat formulaic it might not completely kill your chances.</p>

5

<p>I am applying to masters program only. </p>

<p>I got some A+ grades while I was in college, probably 4 of them, I think I got them for getting the highest grade in the class. I suppose I could ask one of those teachers…</p>

<p>sounds like im going to just have to go to my old college and ask around. As far as the recommendations are concerned, do they just give them to you, or do they send them directly in? I am not applying now, but i’d like to get this resolved now…</p>

6

<p>You seem to be in the same situation I was in (Bad CGPA) except that I was able to get LOR’s from my teachers. (I also used classes I had an A+ in) IIRC, the general rule regrading LOR’s is that at least two must be academic (I might be wrong here though). Most of the time people use three academic references because they have fairly limited work experience in their chosen field. IMHO, having strong LOR’s from your work bosses should be a huge plus. (btw, 3 is the minimum number of LOR’s. You can have a dozen if you want tbh) </p>

<p>LOR’s for the most part are blind submissions. They need to send them sealed directly to the school you are applying to. Your school either contacts your references securely and they submit their reference directly to the school via e-mail, or you have to give your references a LOR sheet, and they then fill it out and send it to the school via snail mail.</p>

7

<p>Don’t send a dozen LORs. Gradcoms have limited time and giving them a giant sheaf of LORs isn’t going to impress them. Pick your best three or four at the absolute most.</p>

8

<p>Well, obviously a dozen is pushing it. :)</p>

<p>I think that in his situation 2 academic LOR’s + two work LOR’s is more then sufficient.</p>

9

<p>Well, my work LORs would be my current boss and my former boss. I could just do my current boss.</p>

<p>I suppose part of my concern is that I ask for a LOR and the guy sends a LOR that says something like “I dont even know this guy. He got an A+ in my class, but you can already see that.”</p>

10

<p>Call or e-mail your former professors and refresh their memories. If you got the grades you say you did, I bet they remember you better than you’d think. :)</p>

11

<p>I think you should compose a good draft of your SOP, put together a CV, then a short summary Of the highlights from the school coursework you did in math/cs. You can provide this info to the profs at your former school, then ask if they would feel comfortable writing you a positive LOR. You can ask in email form if you prefer. They should give you a straight answer. They commonly are asked to do this, it is routine. If they say no, thank them for the candor and move on to the next one. </p>

<p>Speaking to the Dean about the situation first is a good idea, but have these materials in hand, so he can glance at it and get the gist of it. Don’t suggest you TA or attend class. See what he suggests. Depending on the school, it may be okay to see if there are summer projects or research available (if you have the time.) You should be able to get the names of the profs and the grades on your transcript from the school.</p>

<p>Did you never do any projects or research? You didn’t even have to take a class from someone you did a project with to get a useful recco. My daughter used a recco from the prof who ran the competitive robotics group that she did a lot of work with. Another was a prof who she did a group independent research project with for a year and a half, and only audited her grad class. The last prof was a DWIC reference but he is also pretty famous and she TA’s an advanced class for him.</p>

12

<p>I did a couple projects with classmates. IDK, a CS major largely revolved around test taking. It was much like a math major, much less programming than you would think. I would show up on test day, ace the test, and then go home. I dont think that’s noteworthy for any teacher. I think I only ever had one teacher more than once, and I got a B+ in his second class by having by far the highest grade going into the final and then completely bombing the final because I didnt have time to study for it, so I dont think that looks too great.</p>

<p>Good ideas here though, I should certainly write something up before going in there. I think talking to the dean is the best option. and I can talk to the teachers I remember and hope someone will do it for me.</p>

13

<p>If you’re concerned about the universities wondering whether your academic skills are still “fresh” or not, you can study for and take the GRE CS subject test. I’m not sure what NYU’s or Columbia’s policies are concerning GRE Subject tests, and it might not be as appropriate for somebody who did actually major in CS, but just a thought.</p>

<p>Also, while non-academic recommendations are better than nothing, I’m not sure I’d agree they are better than academic references… especially from “known” faculty. I have been surprised by how well some professors have been able to remember me, since I did relatively little outside of showing up for class and doing well on assignments/tests. It couldn’t hurt to figure out who you had for some of your best classes, send them an email, and see what they say. Otherwise, some professors are perfectly happy to write a recommendation letter for students they don’t remember at all, provided you can prove you took a hard course with them and did well… professors tend to be very proud of hard upper-level courses they teach, and for a student to do really well is an affirmation of their ability, and they like to tell people that to do well in their courses means you are well-qualified.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t bother taking any courses just to get recommendations… that’s silly. It would probably be more helpful to get in touch with professors at NYU and Columbia with whom you are interested in working, and discuss working for them. Even students with mediocre applications get into graduate programs if they have a professor to vouch for them. This happens all the time. If you can get a few professors interested in you, it’ll only help your chances.</p>

<p>Are you going to need financial support? If not, you might try to make sure that everybody understands this when evaluating your application. I think that my application had a place to indicate this. Lots of departments want to make sure their students are well-provided for, and may reject you only on the basis of their not having enough funding to admit more than so many students. If you are only going to be paying and don’t require any GRA/GTA funding, that can only help matters - for you (more time for research) and them (more students for the same price).</p>