Current opinions of USC

Parents Forum
141

<p>Why is UCLA even being brought into this? I didn't even make the comparison, which I don't even think is necessary.</p>

<p>Yes, USC's engineering school is top-notch-- in many ways UCLA's superior. And like I said, its professional schools are also top-notch. But I'm referring mostly to the letters and science programs. I know USNews isn't the only or even best source for PhD program quality, but I do think it's somewhat telling. USC's undergrad is consistently ranked higher than the majority of its PhD programs.</p>

<p>But like I said, it probably doesn't even matter. I see this as being much like Dartmouth and Brown, who are known for their undergrad education and not so much their grad education. And this is NOT an insult. I would've thought that any Trojan would LOVE to have USC compared to the aforementioned schools.</p>

<p>Oh, and faculty and funding matter when it comes to graduate education, but placement matters more. Nobody wants a PhD and no job.</p>

142

<p>PTM, there are connections and there are connections. "I know your work from so-and-so" is one thing, the country club style "I drink and play golf/squash" with so-and-so is another. Both kinds of connections work. The latter kind is responsible for a large proportion of the empty suits you find in advertising, public relations, marketing, real estate, financial services and other fields where an ability to bull***** goes along social connections and a developed sense of how to pass the buck in achieving "success." </p>

<p>Erin's Mom, maybe it's because I've lived "urban" all my life but the area around SC, at least during the day, doesn't bother me much. Yes, compared to, say, Northampton, MA, one needs to maintain situational awareness but that's a prudent attitude I'd maintain in most large cities. (I think U/Chicago's rep for "unsafe" is also an instance of reputation lagging reality.)</p>

<p>TSDad, I don't know if you were addressing me but I have no quarrel with USC on the issue of diversity, nor respect due via its affiliation with the AAU. (Btw, some politics delayed UCLA's admittance thereto...some members had reservations about a single system having multiple reps...UCLA opened Pandora's box with four addtional UC campuses joining in subsequent years. UC now has six members, no other state system has more than one.) </p>

<p>HIMom, engineering and pre-med are going to be pretty rigorous no matter where you go; party too much and you quickly flunk out. But aside from a few schools like CMU, engineering and the like seldom define a campus culture and they certainly don't at USC.</p>

<p>Myriad, there is no question that someone like your son can find their own niche...but "niche" is what he's finding, something outside the dominant mainstream.</p>

<p>LTS, your charge against UCLAri for being "unethical" or "hypocritical" due to his affiliation with UCLA or holding a moderator position is an example of sloppy writing and thinking one of my prof friends (who is major USC football honk, fwiw) talks about. There is nothing in his position that is hypocritical--saying one thing while believing another--nor is any part of it unethical. You mean "biased" and if he is biased, he is no less so than you are. Sloppy thinking, sloppy writing.</p>

<p>FilmProspect, I know of many schools, from Dartmouth to Reed, from Carleton to Texas A&M, whose alum display pride in their school. I've never heard of any other school that has several alum per block flying flags and all the other b.s. that Trojan alum indulge in. (I wish I'd bought some of the Trojan toilet paper that they sold in the USC store before someone realized it was a bad idea...the musical toilet seat that plays the USC fight song is bad enough.) Yes, it's pompous and jeerworthy.</p>

<p>QW553, you give another example of sloppy writing. For starters, you need to distinguish between "hatred" and "dislike" or "disdain." Mark Twain said the difference between the right word and the wrong was the difference between "lightning" and "lightning bug." (I told TheMom about this thread and she snorted about the usage of "fake" intellectual as opposed to "faux" or "pseudo.") Orange County has an excellent performing arts complex and the area around Laguna is very nice. South OC also suffers from a "guard gate" mentality, correlating with its heavy infestation of Repbulicans, and Fashion Island is a monument to wretched excess, self-entitlement, self-indulgence, and overblown materialism...so, yeah, from my perspective there's a lot to dislike. YMMV.</p>

143

<p>Nevermind UCLAri with his ultra-polite analysis, there are more powerful CCrs who thrive on ripping USC and discouraging USC applications. As Harvard is the only other school which generates such frothy venom from peckish CCrs--Trojans might consider the slander a backhanded compliment?</p>

<p>Count my son as another who was genuinely upset he wouldn't be going to USC once he got into his ED school. He loved the school when he visited on his own last spring. He's keeping the USC flag up in his room. USC grad school for digital arts is on the horizon.</p>

144

<p>I've encouraged at least a few CCers to attend USC...over UCLA! :)</p>

145

<p>I cited the data on race and ethnicity of American citizens at USC in response to this from Namaste:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Not sure if USC is diverse.. it has the highest number of internationals, but meet the ruling classes of countries like India and Turkey and you'll find that rich kids are rich kids wherever they're from.

[/quote]
</p>

146

<p>TheDad, you are what you are. The best you can do is picking on other people's writing. Did you ever bother giving some actual reasoning? I mean other than all these rants out of your "dislike". I am never fond of my writing since I've been in this country for only about 3.5 years and didn't write English regularly before that. But I think I've pubished more meaningful text than you can in your life.</p>

<p>UCLAri,
I think your assessment of USC's letters and science program is closer to be fair than biased. I am amazed at how some years of working and graduate schooling can help you:) Kudos.</p>

<p>But I do think you failed at knowing USC as an insider (besides only limited to letters and sciences). From my observation, USC's research program has all the potential, but only lack of some breakthroughs like winning several Nobels. I don't see it happening soon because the area where one earns that kind of distinction is USC's weakness compared to our strength in Film, Communication, Engineering, Business/Accounting, Architecture (Thom Mayne won a "Nobel" last year), Music, etc. The quickest fix is buying some semi-retired folks like UCI and U Maryland did, and banking on them to get one or two Nobels. That may not be the right way to elevate your program, but can certainly get you the attention and long-overdued recognition from lay people.</p>

<p>Also when I say USC is a great research university, I did not mean it's a peer with Harvard, MIT, Berkeley, Stanford, Caltech, etc. It won't be like that for a long while. But to be UCLA/UCSD caliber is not difficult at all. In fact, USC may've done better in a lot of areas. UCLA employs the most PostDocs in the nation and spends the second most research money (all included, not just federal grants) among all the universities, but it produces very little, especially when comparing with Berkeley. This just tells you how inefficient UCLA is. </p>

<p>USC's Ph.D. program is getting more recognition from peers each and every year. As far as I've known (far from the whole picture), some recent USC Ph.D. graduates have gone to some great schools to teach as tenure-tracked faculty members, including Harvard, MIT, Berkeley, Yale, Cornell, Brown, etc. NRC is doing its ranking of PhD programs for this decade. Let's see how USC fares. I predict it will be an improvement, but probably need another ten years to become the first echelon.</p>

147

<p>Cheers - You are correct. I guess that we (who respect and support USC) should take the offensive comments as backhanded compliments. Why else would someone take so much time out of their day to read, and to post comments about USC, if they did not feel passionately about USC. (We share and we welcome their passion).</p>

<p>I am still amazed that they (who attend, or whose children attend, 'other' universities) have such a strong interest in USC. Not only do they take time out of their day to read, and to post, in threads related to USC, but they even venture into the bookstore of USC to see what goods are sold, and, they count the number of USC flags flying in neighborhoods. </p>

<p>My son was accepted to several top UC campuses (including UCLA). He was offered Regents Scholarships. My wife and I would have been thrilled if he had chosen UCLA (or one of the other UC campuses). For several reasons, he chose USC. He is very happy at USC. He has never looked back, and has no regrets. His mother and I are just as thrilled with his choice of USC as we would have been with the UC campuses. We have no regrets, and we are so glad to see that he is so happy. One last detail, that stands out huge for me, is that we have never posted comments in a thread asking for opinions of 'other' universities. The thought has never crossed my mind, to read or post in the threads of some 'other' school. For what purpose? I have no interest in trying to dissuade someone from applying to, or attending some 'other' university. </p>

<p>In case someone gets out their Dictionary and/or Thesaurus, or uses their superior knowledge, to check my spelling, and my choice of words, and discovers more mistakes, I do have an excuse. I did NOT attend USC. I graduated from one of those California public universities. </p>

<p>This is the first time that I have had my posts graded/evaluated for spelling and content. I am flattered that someone took the time to do so. Thank You.</p>

<p>Yes, I do admit to occasional misspelling, and even to poor choice of words. It gets worse… I even make mistakes. Imagine that? That is surely not a weakness that you suffer from.</p>

<p>(Question: do people who check the spelling (and word choice) in CC threads, also check the spelling and word choice in the emails that they receive from friends, relatives, co-workers?).</p>

148

<p>
[quote]
USC's Ph.D. program is getting more recognition from peers each and every year. As far as I've known (far from the whole picture), some recent USC Ph.D. graduates have gone to some great schools to teach as tenure-tracked faculty members, including Harvard, MIT, Berkeley, Yale, Cornell, Brown, etc. NRC is doing its ranking of PhD programs for this decade. Let's see how USC fares. I predict it will be an improvement, but probably need another ten years to become the first echelon.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Agreed! USC is getting better and better. I'm not a USC insider, but I see USC as a very important asset to Los Angeles (which is why I take an interest in it as LA's only really top-notch research university). I'd LOVE to see USC skyrocket to the top, even if it means outranking UCLA, because LA as a whole would benefit. And like I said earlier, the professional programs are top-notch without argument (that includes film and TV, engineering, etc.) </p>

<p>Oh, and UCLA would have competition, which is always good.</p>

<p>All in all, I think USC is a fabulous school that's only getting better. Personally, I'd love to have critics like me talking about UCLA. </p>

<p>
[quote]
One last detail, that stands out huge for me, is that we have never posted comments in a thread asking for opinions of 'other' universities. The thought has never crossed my mind, to read or post in the threads of some 'other' school. For what purpose? I have no interest in trying to dissuade someone from applying to, or attending some 'other' university.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>When you're choosing a program, it's sometimes very very hard to choose, and threads like this can sometimes offer people insight into relative strengths and weaknesses of the "other" school. I think that if they don't descend into flamewars, they tend to be useful. I also think that it's good for us to be fair about programs' pros and cons. No school is perfect, and it's always good to get the good and bad about a school. Believe me, I've got more substantial criticisms about UCLA than most of the trolls can manage any day of the week.</p>

149

<p>all in all, USC is a wonderful school in an awesome city=unmatched athletics and superior top 25-national academics, and rising status with unparallelled velocity. not a bad choice in any sense of the word.</p>

150

<p>
[quote]
unmatched athletics

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Now this is where my school pride HAS to come in. Pfft. Unmatched? Naw. Unmatched football maybe. Unmatched baseball for sure. Other than that, we all know it's alllll about Michigan. </p>

<p>;)</p>

151

<p>TheDad</p>

<p>Just a quick comment about how you said USC was the only school to have its alumni flying the school's flag outside of their houses. Obviously you've never been to certain affluent suburbs of Chicago where nearly every home has a Notre Dame Flag flying. Also, have you ever been to Columbus, Ohio? The entire city is awash in OSU flags. In the midwest, USC is well respected and considered to be a better school than UCLA.</p>

152

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<p>I'm not surprised, because in the midwest football prowess apparently carries enormous weight in public opion.</p>

153

<p>In my neighborhood there are two alumni living in adjacent town houses, each fying their respective USC and UCLA flags. They don't speak to each other. Both men in their fifties. The rivalry is laughable, and it's become a bit of a joke in our complex. My D is considering both schools and would be happy to attend either one. Whichever one she may choose, no doubt we will not be spoken to again, ever, by one of those neighbors. It's absurd.</p>

154

<p>Sequoia,</p>

<p>I think that, at least based on my more recent experiences, the rivalry has either died down a bit or those two men are exceptions and not the rule. I'm a pretty diehard UCLA fan (sports wise), but I have a few Trojan friends. Most of my friends from UCLA were the same way, as well.</p>

155

<p>Coureur, you also seem to forget that in most people's minds private is inherently better than public. Thus, USC is often looked upon more favorably.</p>

156

<p>Is this necessarily true though? I don't know that many people would simply say that University of San Francisco is better than Cal just because the former is private.</p>

157

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<p>Not here in California. UCs are generally regarded as better than all but the very best private schools. They rank ahead of a LOT of private schools. </p>

<p>When it comes to academic quality, public vs. private is merely one factor of secondary importance, and football fame is completely irrelevant.</p>

158

<p>Morningafter1 - Good posts. For what it is worth, we put up our USC banner in the front yard today. (I wanted to give someone who counts USC flags/banners, one more to add to their tally.). </p>

<p>Morningafter - you are fighting an losing battle when you make a statement that lauds USC (especially if it states, or infers that USC might somehow be better than a UC campus.). Some who support the UC schools will not let such a post stand without a correction or clarification. They seem to want to have the last word. I watched recently, as a USC detractor posted the last post, and it stood for a few days. Then, a supporter of USC updated the thread with positive statements about USC. Of course, it was just a short time later, that a UC supporter just couldn't let the positive post stand. A correction, a clarification was quickly amended to the thread. </p>

<p>And I really really tire of the phony backhanded empty compliments of USC. I wish that if someone does not like, or does not respect USC, that they should just say so. But to supposedly give credit to USC by stating that it is rising in the rankings, and then digress to the usual put down of USC by stating that an improved USC would give competition to UCLA (i.e., UCLA is better than USC). It is beyond certain people to just give a compliment (without somehow taking it away with some comparative put down).</p>

<p>Here is a compliment. I think UCLA, and UC Berkeley are great schools. I think that any student who graduates from either campus will get a great education, and will easily land a good job. Both UCLA and CAL have awesome professors. Both have beautiful campuses. They are two of the best schools in the country.</p>

<p>I did not add some comparative statement. I did not somehow qualify my compliment. I respect both schools.</p>

159

<p>I think this need by some to compare the two schools just proves that the schools are actually equally deserving of respect. If one was fundamentally inferior to the other, this so called rivalry wouldn't exist. Both schools have their pros and cons but such differences are superficial compared to the education one receives from both.</p>

160

<p>lovetocamp -</p>

<p>I don't really care since neither I nor any member of my family went to or currently attends either USC or UCLA. But I can tell you that I moved to SoCal in 1974, and ever since then I've been hearing and reading USC alums and partisans saying how the school is overtaking UCLA academically. Just wait - it will surpass UCLA any day now.</p>

<p>But here we are 33 years later and it's still the same story. USC is perpetually overtaking UCLA but never actually catches it. It's always "improving" but never improves.</p>