Current opinions of USC

Parents Forum
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<p>Why is it, on a thread with the title "Current Opinions of USC", that people come from all directions to compare USC to UCLA, and UC Berkeley?</p>

<p>The title of the thread was NOT "How does USC compare with UCLA and UC Berkeley".</p>

<p>USNEWS College Database has statistics on over 1,400 colleges across the country. Over one thousand four hundred colleges. Yet, when a thread concerns the quality of education, or opinions of one college (USC), the thread seems to draw two main groups of people (1) USC students/parents, (2) UCLA and CAL students/parents.</p>

<p>You don't see folks from (what many consider) the top colleges (Princeton, Harvard, Yale, Stanford, MIT, etc), and you don't see folks from (what USNEWS considers) a lower tier of Calif schools (UC Merced, UC Santa Barbara, UC Santa Cruz, Cal State Long Beach, Cal State LA, San Diego State, etc). And, you don't see folks from those 1,400 colleges across the country (Baylor, Marquette, Auburn, Florida State, Washington State, Colorado State, Ohio State, Michigan, Univ of Tulsa, Univ of Denver, Brigham Young, etc.)</p>

<p>To me, it is so very telling, to analyze WHO chooses to post. </p>

<p>Why is it that folks from Stanford and Harvard and MIT do NOT join in? If it were so appropriate to compare USC to superior schools, then shouldn't we expect to see people from ALL the universities that are superior to USC? Why don't they (Harvard, Stanford, MIT, etc) feel this same need to warn people away from USC. Maybe people from those schools (Stanford, Harvard, MIT, etc.) feel comfortable within their own lives, and within their own skin. There must be some reason that they don't chime in to "warn away" people who are considering USC. </p>

<p>UC supporters warn students away from accepting USC Merit Scholarships, yet they consider the UC Regent's Scholarships a thing of pride. Do you not see the double standard, the hypocrisy?</p>

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<p>To me it is even more telling that you choose to attack other posters instead of addressing their points about USC.</p>

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<p>Sounds pretty lofty, but you haven't been paying attention if you think discussions by boosters of those schools are all sweetness and light. Harvard bashing is a major cottage industry around CC. The Harvard vs. Princeton vs. Yale vs. Stanford arguments are every bit as venomous and break out far more often than any USC vs. anybody threads. Whenever someone argues in favor of Princeton or Yale on those boards, it's almost always couched in terms of being <em>against</em> Harvard. Same with Stanford vs. Berkeley and even sometimes MIT vs Caltech. Yale or Princeton, etc. people don't spend any time "warning" anyone away from USC because they far too preoccupied with warning everyone away from Harvard.</p>

<p>It's not a mystery. These are just examples of long-time rival schools competing on yet another field of battle. So just as any discussion of the merits of Yale will almost always involve comparisons to Harvard, so it will be with USC and UCLA.</p>

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<p>Coureur - You may well be correct in your assessment - that it occurs for many schools. I don't go looking in threads for Stanford, Harvard and others, so I will take your word for it. </p>

<p>I don't expect you to, but if you took the time to trace back through my posts, you would see that I have always complimented UCLA and CAL. My son was accepted there, and I would have been just as proud had he chosen one of them. I seriously believe that a student will get an excellent education at ANY of the top schools. (I even believe that people can get an excellent education at much lower rated/ranked schools). </p>

<p>My wife and I have gotten so much good out of CC, it is difficult to put into words. We have both shed tears, due to reading many of the compassionate posts on another thread (regarding missing our kids when they go off to college). CC is awesome. I would recommend it to anyone (neighbor, friend, relative, co-worker, etc). It provides so many good things (help with college applications, interviews, SAT/ACT, essays, letters of recommendation, etc. etc). I can not say enough good about CC - up to the point of these stupid rivalry threads. I believe you that they are even worse for other schools (Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stanford, etc.). However, I still maintain that they are a waste, and are counter-productive. To me, they spoil the good that CC provides. </p>

<p>You take me to task for attacking the posters. What would you have me do? Continue to debate and debate? Till what? Till we changed the opinion of the other? The rivalry posts are no different than political and religious discussions. You never change anyone's mind. Each side simply digs in deeper. I say it is foolishness. I don't mean to sound naive, but there is enough crap in this world, enough arguing, enough hate, why continue it in CC? </p>

<p>The woman who started this post had serious questions about USC for her daughter. Yet, someone chooses to post some comment about "15 or more blonde USC girls blocking a sidewalk" back east. Gee, that is really helpful to this mother who is trying to help her daughter make one of the most important decisions in her life. Would you agree?</p>

<p>I have had side discussions with several in CC. My preference is that CC opens up a new folder just for "rivalry" discussion. (similar to "parents cafe"). People who wish to debate and trash other schools can post all day and all night. To continue, if I had my way, the regular folders/threads would be restricted to positive and constructive discussions. There are more than enough people out there (students and parents) who REALLY want to find answers to questions. In my opinion, they should not have to waste their time digging through the dirt, in order to find the helpful information. </p>

<p>As I have stated in prior posts, many of these young students from rivalry schools will end up working side by side with those who they detest right now. Is this the way their careers are going to end up. Dog eat dog? Will they think less of a co-worker because he/she graduated from a rivalry school? Good God - what a tragedy. Hopefully most will mature and leave the childish attitudes behind. </p>

<p>By the way, you are wrong about USC people (or at least wrong about me) trying to convince anyone that USC is as good as any school. Does it really matter if the school that someone attends is rated #19 -v- #18? I am so so tired of people commenting that USC is, or USC is not, comparable to UCLA. It is all subjective, and in the end what does it even matter? (When you are laying on the table in the emergency room, and some doctor is fighting to save your life, are you going to ask him/her... did you graduate from my school?).</p>

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<p>lovetocamp,</p>

<p>I don't know how you can call my compliments "empty." I honestly, in my heart of hearts, from the deepest reaches of my soul, think that USC is an excellent institution. But it has strengths and it has weaknesses. I don't see why it's so awful to discuss the weaknesses along with the strengths. Otherwise, you're just a sycophant looking to lavish praise on something for the sake of lavishing praise. I'm very quick to offer criticisms of my alma mater because I believe that it needs criticism to grow. I want to see USC, as a school, grow into a premier name for the sake of Los Angeles. Is that so bad?</p>

<p>
[quote]
But to supposedly give credit to USC by stating that it is rising in the rankings, and then digress to the usual put down of USC by stating that an improved USC would give competition to UCLA (i.e., UCLA is better than USC). It is beyond certain people to just give a compliment (without somehow taking it away with some comparative put down).

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<p>No school should be immune from criticism. If you think I have harsh words for USC, you should hear what I could say about my alma mater.</p>

<p>And that's how it should be. Me saying, "USC has weaknesses" is not the same as "USC sucks." One is an analysis that offers people the positives and negatives of a program. The other offers just silliness. Why would anyone want to choose a school just based on the strengths?</p>

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<p>Oh, and I don't know how much this will help...but here's a random fact or two or fifteen.</p>

<p>I'm not a UCLA baseball fan. I'm a USC baseball fan. If that doesn't show that I'm open minded to USC, I don't know what will! I cross the line willingly! How much more pro-USC can I get? Two of my best friends went there! I thought about going to grad school there! I regularly defend it from the most rabid Bruins! I tell people to go there when they get good finaid packages (I even tell them to take merit awards!) I've helped read future Trojan application essays!</p>

<p>I mean, I don't know how much more "fair" I can be to USC. I really honestly like the place. I root for UCLA for most things, but I have no hidden agenda when I praise the school. </p>

<p>Sheesh. I'm running my mouth off.</p>

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<p>UCLAri - I appreciate this post (from you) more than others in the past. I, too, see positive and negative at USC. I am just so doggone tired of the comparison game. </p>

<p>I am not certain if you follow sports, and specifically baseball? If so, let's assume (since you are in Southern Calif) that you are a Dodger or Padre fan. If every time we had a discussion, I compared one of your players to a player on the SF Giants, wouldn't you tire of it? You might wish that we could discuss your Dodger (or Padre) player on his own merits. Can he hit, can he field, can he throw, what is his ERA, his slugging percentage? That would be legitimate discussion. Maybe he is a great hitter (a positive) but he makes too many throwing errors (a negative). We have discussed him. If all i could say is that he is not as good as Barry Bonds, wouldn't you get tired of that? If I said, sure he is hitting better, but he still isn't as good as Barry. Wouldn't you start thinking something like ... "can't we just discuss my team without having to compare it to your team?".</p>

<p>Bad analogy, but i am getting tired, so it will have to suffice. </p>

<p>thanks.</p>

<p>footnote: i wrote and posted this before i read your post about USC baseball. Now, after reading your post about USC baseball, I think that this post may make sense to you.</p>

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<p>lovetocamp,</p>

<p>But everything, including colleges, is relative. What good is knowing a player's stats if we can't compare them? What's the point in knowing a teams win pct. if we don't know how they're doing in their division? What's the point in knowing they're number one in their division if we don't know how they're doing in their league? Etc. etc. etc.</p>

<p>What's the point of discussing a competitive team if you can't discuss the competition? I see colleges in the same light. They're all competing for students. How? By offering value. Why do most students choose Harvard over OSU? Value. Why are so many people Green Bay fans? Value. </p>

<p>Comparisons are made on this site because college choices are oftentimes TOUGH. It's very hard to choose between UCLA and Cal and USC in many cases. And let's be fair...most of the times when we discuss these programs, it's between those three (and a few others.) Without the negatives of a program, it's very very hard to arrive at an accurate picture of what they offer, relative to other schools. I mean, how would we know that the Yanks are good if they didn't usually kick butt?</p>

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<p>In college admissions the comparisons are inevitable because students are making a choice. "Which school should I apply to?" "Which school is better for engineering?" and even "Which school has the hottest babes?" Kids ask these questions here on CC all the time, and it's often impossible to answer them without making comparisons.</p>

<p>The real crunch will come in the Spring when some kid says "I've been accepted at both USC and UCLA. Which should I attend?" That's when you'll see the comparison heavy artillery come out.</p>

<p>And just to show I'm not exaggerating about the endless Harvard vs. Princeton vs Stanford, etc. comparison threads that are out there, here is just a tiny sample for your amusement:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=250808&highlight=harvard%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=250808&highlight=harvard&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=228192&highlight=harvard%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=228192&highlight=harvard&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=247366&highlight=harvard%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=247366&highlight=harvard&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=277673%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=277673&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>I respectfully disagree with the posters who are defending the comparison process. Particularly when comparisons are made between largely unlike schools. USC and UCLA are in the same city. But their differences far outweigh their geographic proximity. So why compare?</p>

<p>The original poster is a parent trying to assist their student with the choice of which school to attend. Why not encourage the parent to check out the Renaissance Scholars Program at USC and Thematic Options? Isn't this more helpful than citing how many alumni fly the school flag in Orange County? It's clear that a parent who attended UCLA some twenty or so years ago is not a reliable source of information about USC today. Why do they post? Who knows and who cares. </p>

<p>One can only assume that the original poster (if they haven't given up on this ridiculous thread) will see the forest through the trees and take in the information from current or recent attendees of the University and discard the rest which is mostly the same superficial and rumor-based diatribe on the web that they were originally trying to sift through. One would think that this site would produce more thoughtful and helpful information. And often it does. But not in this thread.</p>

<p>ULtimately the best judge will be the student who is encouraged to walk the campus and speak to students and professors. USC will speak for itself.</p>

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<p>papabear,</p>

<p>I've never engaged in the silly "flags" game, and never will. I try to get down to the nitty gritty... the fine detail so to speak. I don't see USC and UCLA as terribly unlike. Both are large research universities in metropolitan areas. Both have fairly similar resources, and student bodies of roughly the same caliber. Both are sports powerhouses. Both have top professional schools. </p>

<p>This isn't the difference between USC and Pomona. Now THOSE are different schools.</p>

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<p>Perhaps Californians see the two schools as similar...but OOS residents do not. UCLA is not as visible on the national radar simply because it accepts so few OOS students. Thus the 'rivalry' makes less sense to non-Californians than say...Harvard vs Yale or Princeton. Of course, the intensity of rivalries makes little sense anyway.</p>

<p>Besides papabear, don't assume that the CC posters who are driven mad by USC flags in Orange County are UCLA alum. ( You may wonder why any sane person would bother to fret about what's happening on the lawns of Orange County).</p>

<p>Those posters may have stronger agendas to promote. Their spouses may be decades-long employees of UCLA. Soemtimes they disclose this fact --and sometimes they neglect to disclose this fact.</p>

<p>FWIW, my DH is a USC architecture alum--and proud of it. We have lived all over the world and have never had a USC flag on the lawn--or in the house--or on the car--until S2 purchased a felt flag during his solo visit. Not that it was a concious decision. We simply never thought about it. Meanwhile S2 has fglag in his room and it isn't coming down even though he was accepted ED at another school. Nor have I seen USC flags on the lawns of any of DH's illustrious classmates and fraternity brothers. </p>

<p>In my travels and stays around the world, I've seen much more 'brand-waving' among Ivy-leaguers and Stanford Cardinals. I used to tell my New York City colleagues to wear their Ivy sweatshirts to the office so they wouldn't have to work their alma mater into every single lunch conversation.</p>

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I used to tell my New York City colleagues to wear their Ivy sweatshirts to the office so they wouldn't have to work their alma mater into every single lunch conversation.

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Best comment I've read in a while!</p>

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<p>As an unbiased observer who has lived on both coasts, it seems to me that the UCB/UCLA/USC folks are almost as tunnelvisioned about their schools as the Ivy grads are. Almost. (Stanford folks I've known don't seem to mention their alma mater anywhere near as often as either group.)</p>

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<p>Seems to me that all this professed abhorrance for the "comparison process" by USC partisans is reserved for comparisons that are unfavorable to USC. Comparisons favorable to USC are warmly received. E.g. in post #151 morningafter1 writes:</p>

<p>"In the midwest, USC is well respected and considered to be a better school than UCLA."</p>

<p>To which lovetocamp responds: "Morningafter1 - Good posts."</p>

<p>I didn't see any USC people objecting to THAT comparison, just to the ones they don't like.</p>

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<p>coureur - i guess you think that you are capable of reading my mind. Well, you are wrong. My comment "good post" was about the flags of other schools. It was not about the comment regarding UCLA.</p>

<p>Here are the words (from #151) that i enjoyed. "Just a quick comment about how you said USC was the only school to have its alumni flying the school's flag outside of their houses. Obviously you've never been to certain affluent suburbs of Chicago where nearly every home has a Notre Dame Flag flying. Also, have you ever been to Columbus, Ohio? The entire city is awash in OSU flags.. </p>

<p>Earlier in this thread, people who dislke USC, instead of helping the mother and daughter who started this thread, chose to comment about families flying USC flags (as if USC supporters are the only people in the world who fly flags). The comment in #151 illustrates that supporters of many other colleges also fly flags in support of their school.</p>

<p>In the future, for your sake, if I comment on someone's post I guess I will have to quote what I like or dislike. I don't appreciate your mischaracterization of my post. I have been very clear about my distaste of comparisions to UCLA and CAL. I do not wish to see positive statements regarding USC in a comparision with UCLA, nor do i wish to see negative statements regarding USC in a comparision with UCLA. Is that clear enough for you?</p>

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<p>^^No, I can't read your mind. All I can read is what you wrote in your post - which I took at face value.</p>

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<p>^^ I do understand how you could interpret it the way that you did. However, I have been very clear, and I have repeated numerous times my dislike for comparisions (with UCLA and CAL). I mean it deeply enough, in my gut, that I equally dislike both positive and negative comparisions. I don't know how many times that i can say it. </p>

<p>This CC website, in MY opinion, should be maintained for the sole purpose of helping people, and the primary people who come to this site are those who are preparing for the college entrance process. Again, the woman who started this thread was 'seriously' interested in finding out about USC for her daughter. Instead, a bunch of bozos had to turn it into a circus (talking about USC flags in neighborhoods, talking about USC blondes, calling USC classes "academic-lite", talking about the rich snob alumni, etc.). Gee, how helpful that was to this woman and her daughter. I would like to yell to those people: "you should be ashamed of yourselves". Is this how these same people wanted to be treated when they (or their son or daughter) came to this site when they were looking for help, when they were looking for answers to questions. </p>

<p>I am not naive, and I do realize that CC allows people to post just about anything that they want. I guess it is freedom of speech. However, that does not mean that I agree with it. And, it does not mean that it is what people should do. In real life (outside of internet chat), people can do any number of stupid things. People can spit into the wind (and it will end up back in their face). I, personally, choose not to spit into the wind. I try to be smart. I try to put my time into productive things. Others, who dislike USC, have the right to talk about USC flags, and USC blondes, etc. (Mabye, they also spit into the wind?). I still to this moment, do not understand why someone would take the time to post such silliness. Are they trying to scare parents and students away from USC? If so, why? What would it hurt them, if somone, who they do not know, and who they will most likely never meet, chooses to attend USC. Will that cause these people to lose sleep? What is IT that is under these people's skin, that makes them hate USC so much?</p>

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<p>lovetocamp,</p>

<p>What good is any sort of evaluation of a college if we don't compare, however? Why bother even asking these sorts of questions if you're not trying to compare and contrast with other similar programs? I'm legitimately confused as to why you're so averse to comparisons, as I don't see how you can actually arrive at any sort of conclusions otherwise...</p>

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<p>UCLAri - I think as you get older you will better understand why comparisons are annoying and useless. To make the point briefly. After college you will look for a job. When you are in an interview at some Fortune 100 company, you will no longer be interested in "comparisons". Imagine, applying for a position as a software engineer with IBM. Would you ask the IBM hiring manager: "So, would you say that IBM is ranked higher or lower than Hewlett Packard?" No, you would not ask such a dumb question. First of all, you would not be hired. Secondly, you would not even be thinking along those lines (comparisons of IBM to HP). Instead, you would be interested in things like salary, job description, medical benefits, retirement benefits, career advancement possibilities, etc. And, even though both companies (IBM & HP) have salaries, jobs, benefits, etc., you would not need to compare one to the other in order to ascertain if IBM is the right place for you. Instead, you will have some internal standard that you will consider. You will hope for certain benefits, career advancement possibilities. But, you will not do some ridiculous comparison of IBM to HP. Just as each company is unique, and must be evaluated on its own merits, so is each university unique, and should be evaluated on its own merits. The sooner you can leave comparisons behind, the better off you will be. (Imagine, as an employee, and you are receiving your annual evaluation from your boss. Would you want him to tell you: "UCLAri, you are only getting a 2% raise this year - because you aren't as good as John, and you aren't as good as Rick, but you are better than Larry". Would that be helpful to you? More likely, he would tell you things like: "UCLAri, you are receiving a 4% raise this year. The number of projects that you completed on or before deadline improved by 5% over last year. Your error rate went down by 2%. The number of work changes completed without requiring a backout was above the departmental goal. Your mentoring of Larry was noted, and greatly appreciated." You will want to be evaluated on your own work - and not compared to a co-worker. Why should it be any different when evaluating a college? It is lazy to just make comparisons of one school (or one employee) to another. It takes time and effort to evaluate a school (or an employee) on its own merit. Don't be lazy. Your future employers will be expecting more from you.</p>

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<p>I have been following this thread off and on for a little while because my son has applied to USC, and so I am interested in people's answers to the OP. The reason I stopped following it for a while is because it took a turn to compare it to UCLA. In looking back again and seeing the value of comparisons debated, I thought I'd add my two cents. Since my son is not a California resident, he has not applied to UCLA. While I'm sure it's a great school, as a Texas resident, there is no point to apply there since the number of OOS students admitted are so low, the OOS tuition is no bargain, and the classes are larger state-size classes. Given that my son has already been accepted to the University of Texas, with its low instate tuition and strong engineering program, it makes no sense for him to apply to UCLA, even though it's a fine school. That said, he has applied to USC in case he wants the option of attending a private school environment. Because of this, we're interested in people's impressions of USC. Period. We couldn't care less how it compares to UCLA.</p>

<p>In the future when he gets accepted at other schools and is deciding where to attend we would then be interested in comparisons to those schools.</p>