<p>Sorry I just read your earlier posts and you’ve already answered my question…</p>
<p>hellodocks, your thread has been very helpful lately as I have been accepted in to stern. i just have a few questions before I commit anywhere:</p>
<ol>
<li>Are all the classes in Stern curved or just certain classes?</li>
<li>in the curved classes, how competitive does it get?</li>
<li>does the curve ruin any collaborative effort in term of studying together?</li>
</ol>
<p>@fireman
Yes, I love it. I’m having the absolute time of my life and I wish I could stay longer and do more than I am now. Literally considering changing up my majors so I can fit another semester in at another site.
Academically, it’s a bit different. Florence is not very popular with Sternies because it offers only one/two Stern courses, but in general, the classes abroad are easier (there are exceptions though). Professors are more interested in you having cultural experiences and grading can be a bit easier. Lifestyle-wise, I’m traveling a ton, exploring as much as I can, and learning as much outside the classroom as I am inside. As probably all other kids who’ve studied abroad, I’d highly, highly recommend it and consider it the most important part of my college experience.</p>
<p>@ccbound
Commuting to NYU is one of the worst things I can imagine. One of the kids on my floor my freshman year ended up commuting sophomore year, and I watched it destroy him. The travel wore him down, he had no time to do anything besides come to class, go back, do homework, sleep, and repeat. And it adversely affected his grades, his extracurricular involvement, and he participated in absolutely zero recruiting. I wouldn’t recommend it at all. If you can make it work without commuting, that ought to be your priority because otherwise you’ll have an incredibly tough time taking advantage of what Stern is and offers. And that’s all on top of missing the ‘college experience.’</p>
<p>Stern curve: 15-25% get A/A-. Seems rough, but it happens. I missed a grade cutoff by .25 on the final in a finance class last semester. Sucked, but I dealt with it. There’s nothing you can do. The reason there’s some flexibility in the percentages is because the professor has to assign the curve cutoffs somewhere, so if there’s a huge clump of scores at one number, he has to split that somehow.</p>
<p>Internships: Kind of. The proactive, motivated kids always find something. If you want it enough to go fight for it, you’ll get it. It won’t just fall into your lap though. There are plenty of seniors who end up wondering how they never got something but who never really tried as much as others. Also, don’t say ‘investment house’, haha, it’s either ‘firm’ or ‘bank’.</p>
<p>@lakers
Glad you read the thread. I get so, so many PMs and posts where people ask an identical question I already answered.</p>
<p>@dtake
- All are curved. Only some have the infamous ‘Stern curve’, because those are set by individual departments and everyone thinks the Finance Department’s curve applies to all of Stern. It doesn’t, per se. Other departments have curves with the same spread, but some don’t. There are classes (typically for less quantitative subjects) where 40% of kids wind up with an A.
- Very. Kids won’t talk or study with people they don’t know, and that’s just how it is. Most Asian kids study either alone, with one friend they have in the class, with someone who’s taking the same class with a different prof, or get help from someone who took it already. Other kids study with their frat (Greeklife or Stern business society), and others just make sure they enrolled with one or two friends in the same section.
- Not really, but you either have to be pretty nice/popular/good at getting to meet people to break the little cliques everyone has to get help.</p>
<p>hellodocks said: “Also, don’t say ‘investment house’, haha, it’s either ‘firm’ or ‘bank’.”</p>
<p>Yeah, I thought that might be wrong. thanks!</p>
<p>And thanks for your thoughts on commuting. Gives me something to think about.</p>
<p>It’s not a big deal, but with some people if you say it in front of them will think you’re stupid. It’s like saying “I-banking” out loud. A lot of people use it as an abbreviation online or in emails and so some people think it’s alright to say out loud, but generally if you actually say it you just look like a complete clown.</p>
<p>Again, thanks for all your input. </p>
<p>I’m so undecided – I just received enough of a scholarship from Fordham to graduate debt-free, after my parents contribution. I know it’s no Stern, but their finance program is ranked #21, as opposed to Stern’s #2, and you can’t get any closer to NYC than Fordham.</p>
<p>Thank-you for creating this useful thread! I have some questions concerning Stern, if you are willing to answer. 
</p>
<p>1) How is the accounting program at Stern? I am looking at tax accounting, to be precise. Is the workload heavy no matter what your business major is? </p>
<p>2) How hard do introverts have it at Stern? I’ve heard frequently that to survive NYU, one has to be outgoing and a good communicator. I am not exactly outgoing, and I would prefer not to party/drink at all. </p>
<p>3) Everyone mentions how hard it is to do an internal transfer into Stern. How about doing an internal transfer OUT of Stern to another NYU school? (In case a student changes their mindset) </p>
<p>4) Did you ever have problems understanding your courses? Were any of your classes extremely difficult (whether because the material was hard, the professor wasn’t helpful, etc…) I can put in the time to read and study, but I fear that I may not understand certain concepts and get left behind. It’s a really scary thought. </p>
<p>5) How much freedom does one get in choosing classes and professors? </p>
<p>Thank-you!</p>
<p>@ccbound
Ranking isn’t everything. Outside of the top 5 it’s largely useless anyway. Banks have ‘target schools’, literally schools that they target for recruiting. For most bulge bracket (BB) firms, it’s typically the Ivies + Stern/Ross/Duke/McIntire(UVA)/Haas/MIT, give or take a few. i.e. Deutsche Bank doesn’t recruit heavily at Stern, JPM recruits for MO and BO (middle office and back office) positions at Pace, GS takes a few FO (front office) kids from Penn State, etc. It varies. Fordham will not help you much. That isn’t even semi-target status, it’s non-target.</p>
<p>@nostalgia
- Accounting is one of the most popular majors here. I have no experience with any upper-level classes since I haven’t declared it. The mandatory courses so far haven’t been that intellectual, just rigorous. You have to know stuff, a lot of it, and know it well. You miss a bit, and it’ll affect your entire exam because it’s all incremental and interconnected.
It’s ranked well nationally and it’s well-known, and the Big 4 recruits heavily here. Your career opportunities should be solid. There are probably more opportunities for internships in that field year-round than any other, there are so many accountancy firms in the city that always need cheap help. A lot of finance kids will even take accounting gigs if they can’t get top finance stuff just to get some relevant experience.</p>
<p>2) You’ll probably actually fit in just fine, because there’s tons of kids who talk to just about nobody and do just about nothing outside of school, homework, and classes. </p>
<p>3) Pretty easy. I don’t think I’ve heard of anyone except one kid doing it, but we (along with Tisch) are the most selective so getting out is easier than getting in.</p>
<p>4) I had one class where the professor was a brilliant guy (even developed his own formula in his research field that got successfully published and named after him) but an awful teacher. Got my worst grade in that class. Had another where I put in 23 hours of study in for the midterm and barely broke the average, ended up missing the grade cutoff for an A on the curve by .25. It isn’t too bad, you win some you lose some, college is more about grades, it’s about learning. When you learn about yourself, how you work and study, how you adapt to poor circumstances (teachers, subjects, whatever), that’s a valuable life lesson.</p>
<p>5) A lot, you don’t have to take classes in a set order unless they’re for your major, so you can either choose which classes to take each semester by going with (a) classes you want to take now, (b) professors you want to take now, (c) a combination of the above, or (d) the time schedule you want, i.e. classes only two long days a week vs. four short days a week.</p>
<p>Whew, I have a lot to learn. Thanks, hellodocks, I’ve been reading around the web, based on your response. Majoring in finance is something I just starting thinking about, as is apparent.</p>
<p>I wonder what people with a “useless” Fordham degree in Finance do? Guess I’ll go ask over there.</p>
<p>Is the competition cutthroat to the point students sabotage each other’s grades? I heard this is what goes on at Wharton and Stern is right on the same level as Wharton…</p>
<p>OK, hellodocks, and anyone else-- straight question, straight answer –</p>
<p>What are you EXPECTING Stern to give you at the end of the day.</p>
<p>OK, you work your ass off, make it up to the coveted 15-25% in every class, Stern opens the door, you’re in and almost guaranteed an analyst position.</p>
<p>Make it to the middle of the road, then does Stern open that same door, then it’s up to you?</p>
<p>@ccbound
I didn’t say a Fordham degree was useless. Reread my post. I said that as far as recruiting on the Street goes, rankings are largely useless outside the top 5 (maybe 10) of anything. When banks form their roster of target schools, it typically includes a mix of the Ivies, potentially a few public Ivies, top 5 undergrad business, and top 10 engineering. Fordham doesn’t fall anywhere into that, so <em>for finance recruiting</em>, it’s not that powerful a name.</p>
<p>Anyone I’ve seen from Fordham in banking has been entered the industry in a middle office or back office position at a BB or into a MM (middle market) firm. It’s possible to network your way out and get something better, but by far those who broke in did it to a ‘lower’ position. Kind of like how Fordham has a football team but this past year was the first year anyone from there ever made it through the NFL draft.</p>
<p>@lullina
It’s a bit of a myth at both schools. Everyone’s heard of how kids put laxatives in each other’s coffee before finals at Wharton, but I’ve been there, almost went there, and have friends there and it’s all overhyped. I have heard and know of kids at both schools with refuse to study with anyone else or who have gone online to try to post false solutions to practice problems to throw other people off, but nothing physical or extreme happens. If you’re found doing something illicit at either school you face disciplinary measures for violating academic integrity, so that’s enough of a deterrent.</p>
<p>The competition is fierce, but no one is knifing each other, at some point all that worrying over someone else becomes far less productive than simply hitting the books to get on top of your own ****. Unfortunately, many kids turn to boosting their chances in that element, there are so many kids on addy/ritalin everywhere it’s a bit ridiculous.</p>
<p>@ccbound
What I expect it to give me is two-fold and simple: the quantitative, balanced, broad, mind-shaping education I’m paying for … along with a wealth of opportunities to put that to practical use in a meaningful way.</p>
<p>Just getting to the top of your classes guarantees you nothing. There are kids with 3.8+ here who can’t get an FO position to save their life, and there are kids with 3.3s who outperform 95% of their class in terms of placement. It’s up to you all the time, whether you’re ‘middle of the road’ or at the top. And in my book, ‘middle of the road’ is a mentality, not a GPA. You might be far smarter than someone with better grades than you, and if you can articulate that fact and prove yourself, a bank doesn’t care that you didn’t do as well on paper as some other kid.</p>
<p>Stern gave and continues to give me a brilliant education. I decided I wanted to pair that with a career, so I went out as a first-semester sophomore and did work. Now there are kids older than me and years ahead of me coming up and asking me how I did it, what my secret is, how their resume looks, or if I can help them network. You are in charge of yourself. That’s as straight as I can say it.</p>
<p>Thanks, again. I didn’t mean to say you were calling a Fordham degree useless – I guess one’s meaning doesn’t always come across with the written word. </p>
<p>I truly appreciate the time and effort you put into this site, for the benefit of people like me.</p>
<p>I think hellodocks hit a very important recruitment factor which isn’t emphasized enough. If you want to separate yourself junior year for a summer banking internship, make sure you have a relevant internship/job your sophomore year. The internship/job doesn’t have to be paid and it can be in PMW cold calling but make sure it exposes you to certain aspects of finance. You will get weeded out for top tier positions if your only work experience is being club president, volunteering, working in retail and a decent GPA as a junior when your competition has 1-2 years of experience.</p>
<p>It’s true. You’ll see some kids with freshman finance internships, sophomore front-office positions, and their junior summer is essentially superfluous because the year before they already nailed top-tier BB offers. And on top of that they stacked leadership, a good GPA, hard coursework, and interesting extracurriculars.</p>
<p>Those are the standouts, and kids like that get tend to get offers everywhere they go, while some kids interview and get dinged everywhere.</p>
<p>I have to wonder how many kids get the interviews/interships becuase of family connections. Given what NYU charges, my guess is quite a few kids have a relative/family friend to get them in. I have to wonder with that same connection, does it matter if you go to Fordham of Stern.</p>
<p>^Kayf</p>
<p>If you have high enough connections, it does not matter where you go. However, for the average person, you want all the help you can get. Also, there are very strict family hiring practices in a lot of companies. If my dad is SVP at a BB and wants to hire me, he can refer me but I can’t be on his team nor can I work with him.</p>
<p>Can you give more information about double major within Stern, for example: Finance and Actuarial Science or Finance and Entrepreneurship?
Can I use the University Electives to fulfill the second major or I have to take more classes? If I have to take more, how many more?
One last question, do you think double major would get higher chance to get a job or intern, or it’s generally the same?</p>
<p>Thanks`</p>
<p>@kayf
Connections do matter, definitely. Most of the time though it’s informal and it typically won’t land you at the same firm as a relative, just as commentcomment described. I have seen one kid I know quite, quite well enjoy the benefits of connections though. He got the opportunity to interview with one of the lower-tier BBs in their best IBD group simply through a family member putting in a word with someone they knew there. He mucked it up because he had the wrong attitude and just went at it completely wrong and got all dejected until the same family member pulled more strings to get him an interview with a PE megafund. He ended up getting the summer offer there and that’s where he’ll be.</p>
<p>@ljrtan
I answered this on one of the earlier pages not too far back, try reading back through. Double majors just eat into the total credit figure you’re allowed for your Bachelor’s. Typically in Stern it’s four classes for a major, so basically one full semester worth of courses in that discipline (whether you spread them out or have them all at once) instead of random electives you want.</p>
<p>Double majors probably do fare better in recruiting, but I think that’s more an indication of the type of person they are rather than double majors getting you a better job. Someone who takes on a double major probably does it in addition to student leadership positions, work experience, and extracurriculars that all make them a more well-rounded, appealing candidate than someone who’s just coasting by with a finance major and parties a lot.</p>