I have not read any criticism by the current student on his/her own school from any other thread from other schools here on CC. It also happens to be the detarment my child is going into soon. It is very disturbing to me as a parent. Who should we believe? Marbles321 also implies many of the students feel the same way. Our visits to CWRU has always been positive. But marbles321 seems to feel very strongly and wants everyone to know about it.
@TigerBeach There are plenty of kids who come on CC to criticize aspects of their school. It’s not predominant because once kids enroll in a school, they tend to move on from CC into a new phase, but it’s certainly not unusual. Not every kid is going to be happy with every school. That said, I do think it is important to carefully consider such reports. Sometimes they can reveal issues that are important to factor into the decision. But it’s also important to listen to those who chime in to mitigate those reports.
When I was a freshmen there was 400 incoming BMEs. My sophomore year there was 200, then my senior year capstone only has 100 students. Many students have opted out of BME because they found other departments that better suit their needs as growing engineering students. Many students found out they were offered more co-ops and internships by changing their major from BME to meche or CS.
Industry is aware of the issues with BME majors, and often lists engineering jobs in BME as CS, EE, or mechanical engineers only. This is not CWRUs fault alone, it’s just the shape of the industry now.
Also, there are 2 capstones in BME that are getting great recognition and doing great. That’s not something I will dispute. However, my experience here has shown me BME alone is not a good preparation for industry. There are plenty of capstones that are struggling to create something meaningful without the background the other majors provide.
I had one friend decide to go to medical school after he realized his capstone wasn’t going to get him a job as a bme device engineer. I had another friend feel cornered into going to graduate school because he knew his prospects in industry are slim. You have to be very competitive to land a BME job, and you are competing with the CS,EE, and mechanical engineers. If they have a better capstone project, they can edge you out for the same BME job.
Industry might get better about hiring BMEs as engineer Is eventually, but that’s not the current marketplace. Capstone BME students are easily able to land Verification and Validation or Quality Assurance jobs, but that was not my goal. I wanted to be an engineer I at a company.
Very few case students will speak out on BME because we have a conservative school culture. There are many BMEs who are interested in titles and recognition. They want to be on the winning capstone team and get the awards and accolades. My priority was to develop myself so companies would be willing to hire me as an engineer. My first questions were, what is missing here? What is the BME department glazing over? What do I need to teach myself? I don’t care if I take a C in a capstone course if I taught myself the skills that made companies take a second look at my BME major.
That’s my two cents.
http://pulse.embs.org/march-2015/great-divide/ This might be of interest to you. An EE Professor showed me this as a junior and it helped me reshape my undergrad. I’m not making this up for the sake of being upset with BME.
@marbles321 I agree, as would many in the field, that doing a BS in biomedical engineering isn’t particularly useful. It is better to do the more traditional, and broader undergraduate degree, then specialize for graduate work. I don’t know why you blame Case for the fact that you decided to study it and now (due to the over supply of biomedical engineers only with a BS) you are having a hard time. Also, I know many in the department who are happy. As far as the attrition it is understandable that many under qualified candidates enter. Case is known for it’s work in the medical field, and they think it is a good fit or they see it as a rout to med school.
I blame case because we have a weak EE CE department, and BME device department. No one seems keen on fixing it.
Thanks for the postings. I think it was communicated very clearly at BME overview that a BS degree might not be sufficient to become an engineer due to its multidisciplinary nature of the field. So my son already knows now that he must continue with a graduate degree. I also had lengthy talks with a recent CWRU PhD graduate who is having a dream job on a fantastic project team. According to this graduate, starting with BME vs starting other engineering fields then BME graduate studies tend to shape the student differently. He strongly recommends starting in BME and continuing into the BME graduate program.
@marbles123 @TigerBeach Thanks to marbles123 for posting this important overview of undergraduate BME degrees by the IEEE. I think the IEEE article is clear and even points out that Case is BETTER than average program in that it steers undergraduate BMEs towards EE if they do not want to go to graduate school to be sure they are prepared for careers directly and get the necessary design experience. The article seems to say that the biology and chemistry courses, important for medical school, are way less important for a budding engineer, than a focus on mechanical and electrical design skills. http://pulse.embs.org/march-2015/great-divide/
@testking My son is studying math and physics, a junior at Case, and I can answer some basic questions if you have them.
He is very happy with his physics advisor, and working on biophysics modeling , using the Case supercomputer to model biochemical signals between human cells, and got a Physics REU this summer at U of Maryland. (Its a well payed position, with airline tickets included and free housing). He is planning a PhD. The placement is very good into PhD programs, as I understand it. I think job placement is also good, especially engineering physics, as the department is a very good size with strong , applied physics faculty such as:
Case has a very strong group working on instruments for the South Pole Telescope!
: http://cmb.phys.cwru.edu/ruhl_lab/
This Cosmology lab at Case, designs and builds instruments to measure cosmic microwave background radiation.
Case is also strong in optics, biophysics, materials physics and condensed matter physics.
Here is a group that works on solid state devices and optics:
http://jablab2.case.edu
Here is a group that does imaging physics instruments and models:
Its relatively easy to get into a research group at Case in physics, all groups take undergraduates and they teach students a lot of practical skills useful for engineering careers.
Hello
Thank You for the detailed information. Much appreciated. I couldn’t have asked for more. Thanks once again.
@cle4life I am upset with Case because we have a highly ranked BME department that does not offer a good instrumentation and circuits course for BME (or even a broader instrumentation course for EE), and does not offer a design based analog circuits course for BME. We have a biomedical devices and instrumentation track, that fails to meet the needs of students interested in this area. The Biomedical Devices and Instrumetation track is great in name only. This was highly disappointing as a student here.
Also I doubt Case will do anything to fix the two courses in question EBME 310/360 or EBME 418 because undergraduate education is secondary to research.
It’s not going to get better and we are going to keep calling it the Devices and Instrumentation track, and lure interested students here.
Its interesting that out of all the student reviews of CWRU, I have never heard any complaints from Pre-med students. Has anyone else? In any case, that is all I am interested in, so if they are happy, I have no concerns.
My D is a freshman and she at this point has no issues. The wok load is exactly what has been said about Case, large. She enjoys the school but is looking forward the winter break.