Perhaps if they don’t have any supplemental essays you could ask her to add them as parent picks with the caveat that you won’t make her attend if she decides against them in the end. If she doesn’t get in it’ll be a moot point and if she does she’ll have time to visit or at least investigate them further.
@Sue22 agreed. No harm in having her apply. And those are two we can reasonably visit as well.
At this point, I think that a school that would be very attractive to your daughter & to which she would be accepted is Bucknell University in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania.
Most similiar school to Bucknell is Colgate University.
The Fiske Guide To Colleges gives:
Bucknell University a rating of 4 out of 5 Pens for Academics, 4 Telephones for Social Life, and 3 Stars for Quality of Life.
Colgate University received ratings of 4.5 Pens for Academics, 3 Telephones for Social Life, and 3 Stars for Quality of Life.
Davidson College received: 4.5 Pens for Academics, 3 Telephones for Social Life, and 5 Stars for Quality of Life.
Washington & Lee University received ratings of: 4.5 Pens for Academics, 3 Telephones for Social Life, and 4 Stars for Quality of Life.
University of Richmond received: 3.5 Pens, 3 telephones, & 3 Stars.
Vanderbilt University received ratings of 4, 4, & 4. = about as “perfect” as it comes (not a party school & without excessive academic pressure).
The University of Virginia received: 5, 4, & 5 = a perfect rating as 5 Telephones is suggestive of a party school environment.
Fiske Guide comments that: Bucknell University’s central Pennsylvania campus is remote but one of the most beautiful anywhere. ( My understanding of the term “remote” differs from the Fiske Guide’s.) Bucknell sponsors road trips to New York City, Philadelphia and to Washigton DC according to the Fiske Guide To Colleges 2020 edition.
Both Colgate & Bucknell are in the Patriot League for athletics.
In my opinion. your daughter should only consider schools outside of the Midwest US.
I think that the seven schools which I have listed above would provide a significant amount of comfort, prestige & growth for your daughter.
Additionally, the University of Vermont Honors College might appeal to both OP & daughter. Burlington, Vermont is one of the most beautiful, friendly & interesting cities in the country.
Lewis & Clark College in Portland, Oregon is gorgeous & interesting beyond its size, just over 2,000 undergraduates with a total student enrollment of about 2,900 students when including grad students, due to its spectacular setting in suburban Portland.
My D was super shy, but she definitely wanted to get away from high school. As you know, she didn’t know a single person and initially had a really hard time. (In fact, I believe that D was the first person from our school to attend Bates, and Bates now recruits from our school, which has sent a kid there each year since she went.) Her getting away from high school was a great thing.
My S would have quite happily gone to the college a bunch of his friends went to, and seriously considered an OOS option, Indiana U. In the end, I think he’s happier than he realizes that he’s at Binghamton, where only one of his HS friends goes. He and his high school friend decided they wanted to share a suite, but not be actual roommates because they both wanted to be sure of meeting new people. That’s what has happened.
My point is that kids are pretty resilient and nearly all will make new friends. We’ve all heard plenty of stories of high school friends going to the same college and they end up not being friends anymore, and they meet new people. You have the ability to send her anywhere, so you might want to encourage her to let go of the idea that she needs to know someone. Between now and application time, she’s probably going to change her mind about some things and not others.
I think your D would likely enjoy many of the schools being discussed. I also agree that Davidson does seem different than Wake in a number of social ways - but again does seem pretty intense academically (not that she couldn’t handle it).
Even though Vanderbilt may be out of reach with her current ACT score, her scores will likely go up and you said the other parts of her application will be strong. Based on what you describe, it could be a very good fit. What if she visited and loved it? It could motivate extra studying over the summer to raise scores for a last testing push and she could apply ED. It’s good to be focusing on some less selective schools but you said you’re open to an ED app so may be worth considering. It’s got everything you listed that your D wants plus great ratings for “happiest students” and “quality of life”.
I would recommend finding the sorority (and other student published) pages for schools of interest (like Wake) on instagram. You will get a sense that isn’t curated by the school itself although the school ones can also be interesting. At some, there will be lots of dressed up pics (semi formals, “we’re dressed for fall”, etc. )and at others, kids in ski beanies, down jackets, and sweats. The differences can be stark! But just as some might hate a place where girls are in skimpy sun dresses at the Friday field party, others might think it looks like a dream.
I think she has a good list. I suggest an absolute safety, an EA school in the bunch. I don’t know if any in that list offers that.
Davidson is a particular favorite for me. A reach, but definitely reachable. Is that her ED possible school? Amazing that your school has so many kids getting accepted to Wm&Mary—i don’t remember if you are in state, but I know it’s a reach for kids in our area with those numbers, especially for girls.
BC is as much worth its price as any school charging that much. Whether any school is worth those prices, one can debate that.
I’m a native New Englander but have spent time in the south and have family there as well. Additionally, some of my kids’ boarding school friends have chosen the southern school path. It’s a whole different world down there, really. I’ve seen my kids and some of their friends diverge quite a bit based on the college path taken.
If you are concerned by what you are hearing about Wake, you’ll find the same issues at Richmond and in spades at W&L.
To be honest, when I read your list for your daughter initially, I was very surprised. I know each kid is different but it seemed like such a departure from your son’s list and what I feel I’ve gleaned about you and your family from your posts.
I’ll admit to not being a Greek fan but isn’t exclusion what sororities and rushing are about by the nature of the structure? It’s definitely ramped up down south.
Agree with @doschicos but admire OP’s willingness to venture beyond the midwest & the northeast.
For many, to enjoy Southern culture you have to live it.
P.S. Not sure if it has been noted in this thread, but Davidson College is an academically rigorous school.
@homerdog Great thread and thanks for posting it. My DS 19 (happily ensconced at Carleton) took a similar path to yours and my DS21 has some of the same goals for a school, although his academics aren’t nearly as good as your DD’s and we have the wildcard of athletic recruiting (running) to deal with. Two thoughts have occurred to me while reading the thread:
- Your DH's vision for the future of your DD does not seem to line up with hers, and that can cause friction in the decision process. My personal bias is that he is that he is the one who needs to open his mind to your daughter's way of thinking, but either way getting them closer to the same page might head off some problems.
- Based on recent similar threads (@allyphoe), handing your daughter a container of soup dumplings immediately following each college visit leads to happy outcomes for all!
@doschicos yes, this list is a departure from S19’s search. The kids are different. S19 is more intellectual and in general just a more curious student. He’s had the same group of high school friends for years - all XC, straight laced, super bright boys. D21 is more social. Has friends in half of a dozen “friend groups”. Having a traditional rah rah college experience is more interesting to her than a small LAC. That being said, we’ve run into road blocks making the list because (a) she still really likes the idea of small, traditional residential campus with small classes and (b) she likes warm weather.
So, the original short list looked like this - W&M, Davidson, Colgate.
That’s not much to choose from.
So, I thought maybe Richmond. A little bigger at 3300 kids, good weather, easy to get to Richmond, a dance community where she would find her people without having to major in dance. Still seems kind of perfect to me. Unless the southern thing seems like too much but I dare say I feel like that feeling is less intense there than at Wake and W&L.
Wake is added because, unlike Vandy, it seems she might be able to get in. Again, there’s dance or she could be on the dance team that cheers at football and basketball games. She’s interested in Greek life but the only Greek life she knows is her friends’ midwestern Greek which seems maybe far removed from southern Greek life. Both my husband and I were Greek at Northwestern and loved it. And don’t ask - she in no way can get into NU.
W&L, Elon added because we will be down that way for spring break and I thought she should at least look at them and ,the more southern schools she sees might help her decide if she likes the vibe.
Colgate would have to be ED. From our school, I think that’s the only option. I’m starting to feel like that could be maybe the best match. Her ACT has to go up.
BC I’ve been over before. Not sure about the culture. Lots of kids there we know. She needs to visit. Another school that actually could be perfect if she’s ok with the vibe. Good size, close to S19, easy to get there, multiple kids from our town there but big enough she can find her own way, strong academics, etc.
S19 has said that a school like Bowdoin would probably not be a good match for her. He knows his sister well. Just thinks it’s too sleepy for her. I still have sleepy Bates and St. Olaf on the brain and want her to make that determination for herself.
How I wish she liked Wisconsin but she’s pretty sure she does not want big. Even with an honors program.
Sure. Vanderbilt, Emory - those would be great. Good luck to her getting in. She would have to blow her ACT out of the water. I can tell from Naviance. Too many tippy top kids with straight As in all honors since freshman year rocking 35/36 or 1550plus SATs. They all got in this last cycle. Others did not. We need to be realistic.
Agree with @doschicos . One son went to SMU and one is at Emory. It is a different world, which is one very good reason to go away and be exposed to a different culture. However, that said . . . I always hesitate to recommend SMU for girls. I don’t have daughters but the emphasis on appearance there would not be something I would want. It was, however, the perfect school for my son.
Also, everyone is throwing around Davidson – it was my other son’s first choice, he applied ED and (as expected) didn’t get in. No one from his school has ever gotten in. He’s the one who ended up at Emory.
If Colgate is at towards the top of the list, how about Hamilton or the easier to get into St. Lawrence? (None of which are warmer weather, though. 
)
@RockySoil I don’t think that H’s view is that different than D’s. He doesn’t see her at a LAC. He actually wishes she would agree to a big school. Thinks she needs lots of options academically and would be happy with the social life. I guess I kind of agree about the social part but she and I disagree about the academic part.
Of course, the compromise would be midsized. He’s cool with that. That’s what he wanted for S, too, but S19 won out and he was right in his conviction that his school is right for him. So midsized and attainable? Harder with her rigor and predicted scores. No NU, Wash U, Vandy, Emory, Duke, Georgetown, etc. She won’t get in. (Well, maybe Emory she could get in according to Naviance. Not the others.)
Many other midsized schools have some sort of religious component. ND, Villanova, BC, Santa Clara, etc. I think I heard him pushing ND the other day. That’s a silly suggestion as even lots of Catholic light kids around here felt the church presence was too much.
When I ask H for suggestions, I get one. UIUC. I think he’d like Wisconsin for her too. I know she wants something else and he knows it too. He eventually came around for S. He will be with us for all of our college trips so this will be interesting.
@cinnamon1212 I can’t remember if I already mentioned it but we know a female student at SMU and no way I’m sending D there. The mom (and apparently all of the moms??!!) stayed for TWO weeks during rush because it was “so stressful” and they needed to be there to support the girls. Just wow. D needs to know she’s more than a pretty face.
@doschicos Yes I guess Hamilton. S19 was accepted there. It would be silly to visit Colgate and not Hamilton. I just think Colgate maybe has more of the energy she wants. Maybe a more similar option to Colgate would be Lafayette.
See this is not easy! I keep going back to Davidson, Colgate. I’m feeling very unoriginal. I’m warming up to BC though. Just found out another female student D knows is going next year and she’s an amazing kid.
In my above post, I should have specified that I agreed with most of the post, but not with concern or tone about the University of Richmond or about Washington & Lee University.
Each school has its own personality. And both schools are proud of their campus culture.
Washington & Lee University is the best at what it does & at what it represents. 75% in fraternities & 75% in sororities. Freshman seem to be the exception. W&L’s Greek life is very inclusive & seemingly anyone who wants to join can. Preppy dress is the norm.
The University of Richmond differs from W&L in the respect of location. It is not rural as is W&L, it is located in a city = Richmond, Virginia.
W&L is 81% white, while Richmond is more racially diverse at 58% white. WFU is in the middle at 69% white.
Greek life dominates W&L, is very visible & strong at WFU, and present in healthy, but not dominating, numbers at the University of Richmond.
All three attract students from upscale families.
Attrition rates are 4% for W&L, 6% for WFU, and 7% for the University of Richmond. High retention rates indicate student satisfaction.
Wash & Lee’s graduation rate is outstanding among all LACs. WFU & URichmond less so, but still respectable. (Only Bowdoin College & Williams College match W&L’s stellar graduation rate among LACs.)
WFU’s graduation rate is similar to Carnegie Mellon University, Boston University & Brandeis University.
Richmond’s graduation rate falls in line with Union College & with Lafayette College.
My point is that there is no mystery as to what you get at Wash & Lee. And, apparently, students love the experience. Not for everyone, but prospective applicants do not need to dig to find the true campus culture.
At all three schools, personal grooming is valued & expected–but that is true at most schools throughout the South.
P.S. To state the obvious: Wash & Lee University is much like an upscale country club with outstanding academics & excellent job placement.
BC doesn’t have THAT much of a religious presence, (far less than ND, by my understanding) and tons of kids there aren’t necessarily religious. However, my D felt that there was a overt religious vibe and she disliked BC intensely. There are priests walking around on campus, and on our tour, religion was mentioned more than once. Something to consider. Lovely campus though.
Re Colgate, make no mistake, there is a TON of partying going on there. A LOT. I wavered in encouraging my son to apply and in the end, I decided to not even mention it to him, though he knew of it. I think he would have loved it, perhaps a little too much, and I don’t think it’s got a huge rah rah scene. It’s cold and isolated. There is no major airport nearby at all. I guess 90 minutes to Rochester airport? I think it’s about 30 minutes to Syracuse. One of my son’s besties goes there and it’s popular in my area. It’s an excellent school. Kids are happy.
I don’t understand your hubby’s view that it’s okay for your son to be at an LAC but not your D, because he is a STEM kid and she isn’t. That makes no sense to me. Honestly, the majority of all these colleges you’re considering have really great reputations. And again, it’s the kid more than the college that will ensure her future.
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@homerdog , we are midwesterners too. So we did try to learn a little about about “southern greek culture” even though my DS was not interested in fraternities, it seemed like those with strong greek culture would be a part of the schools’ overall social culture. In the end, he took WF off his list, which was an RD app and by then he had other options he liked better…but the southern greek thing was a part of that decision. And the “Work Forest”; work hard/play hard notes. I too perused Niche student reviews for student culture, kind of like I do on any online reviews…know that you are getting skewed negative, drop any outliers. But recurring themes I did note. IMO it’s very helpful to have an idea of these things before you visit, so you can really try to dig in or keep an eye out for any issues that are concerning. I also kept a spreadsheets with some notes but DS hated my spreadsheet LOL (I think that was an independence thing). My general approach was to do the visit, hear his reactions, and then after hearing his impressions, mention anything that I had read or learned that I felt was pertinent (such as the WF stuff above. And BTW WF is a great school…just not a fit for my son).
You may wish to consider the ease of accessing these schools,as well. Direct flights to nearby airports are a real help.