starting college search sophomore D

Parents Forum
1

Now that S19 has decided where he will attend college in the fall, it is time to turn to D21. She started a spreadsheet and interested in the process, so we could use a little guidance from the great minds here on CC on what colleges to research for fit. At this point, she is not sure about public/private, big/small, urban/rural etc. She is interested in graduate school for masters or PhD. We are full pay so interested in merit options to keep the costs of undergraduate lower. We are in MN and the state has reciprocity with WI, ND,SD. She enjoys running outside daily (6 miles/day) and would like some options of places that would allow that (she doesn’t mind cool/cold…just not ice!) I could see her in a smaller to mid-size school for undergrad since she would have a chance at a bigger university for graduate…she feels the same. She attends a public HS of @ 400+ graduates/year and I think she may feel just like a number there, and not have the personal attention like the school where I went to HS. However, I also don’t want to limit her to a smaller college before she sees what is out there. My husband is alum from U of MN, I went to a small liberal arts school. D has always lived in the suburbs and not particularly drawn to the busy city areas.

Stats: 4.0 gpa, 32 pre-ACT, 1320 PSAT, interested in Math/Science-last year was thinking neuroscience, but now leaning more toward genetics. Currently in AP Bio, AP Physics, AP Calc AB, next year will take AP Physics C, AP Calc BC, some AP Seminar.

Interests: Running (XC-2 years, rookie of yr 1st year, varsity letter 2nd year, will not continue team next year-did not like competing- but runs 6 miles/day, 6 days a week year round), Orchestra-first violin (class in school, country rock band this year only, volunteer soloist at church), Science Bowl (plans to stay with this activity all 4 years), peer tutor one semester as class alternative and has done 4 hours of paid tutoring this year…interested in continuing this activity.

I get the feeling that genetics is more of a specialized grad school major. Would Molecular Biology be the major she would pursue as an undergrad if still interested in genetics? She is interested in Math-she’d like to use the Calculus she has learned, Neuroscience, Psychology as well, but currently her AP Bio class has really sparked an interest in genetics for her.

So, I think we are looking for great schools for Biology (in particular genetics/cell biology?) that offer merit?

Maybe we are a little early on the search, but since she is interested, I wanted to get started. Is there advice on how to distinguish what colleges are STRONG in Biology since almost all colleges will have a Biology program? Are there any ways she might be attractive to a school for merit?

2

I’d try to tease this out by taking her to visit a variety of colleges. We did this with DD the summer after her 10th grade year. We went to U of Richmond, U of South Carolina, College of Charleston, Elon, UNC Greensboro, Wake Forest, Davison.

This gave our kid public, private, large, small, urban/suburban/rural so she could have an idea of what these were like.

This first trip really helped…she realized she really liked the urban schools best. So that helped narrow the search for us.

3

Is she thinking doctorate… a research type career path, or genetic counseling which requires a specialized master’s program, or something else?

4

At the undergraduate level, genetics is often treated as a subarea of biology. Since biology is a broad major, the upper level course work can vary considerably from one student to another as each chooses courses in his/her favored subareas.

5

Yep to what @thumper1 said, I would start w/ schools near you that will give her a good example of each type of school. She doesn’t have to love the school itself (although that would be a plus, I’m sure!) but it should help hone in her mind what’s important to her.

Once she’s got a better understanding of what she likes, I would use a college search engine: CC, bigfuture, cappex, etc. Something that will help her keep all the different schools organized in one spot. I was amazed how often DS & I went back to his bigfuture acct for reference. Using an engine will also help you find other schools that are similar to what she likes that maybe you hadn’t thought of already.

Then I would start visiting! Don’t wait! It’s gets pretty difficult to schedule visits around a busy kid’s schedule. My DS started making visits fall soph year and thank goodness we did b/c he wouldn’t have had enough time otherwise.

Good Luck!! :slight_smile:

6

“Don’t wait! It’s gets pretty difficult to schedule visits around a busy kid’s schedule.”

You aren’t kidding! We tried to schedule a tour for spring break week a month in advance, and found some tours already booked for the entire week. Thankfully we’re starting the touring early, so we have time to make these kinds of mistakes.

7

Thank you all. I know Ds HS has taken bus trip tours to mostly in state options, but both public/private, so that may be the way to start. I thought maybe some CCers would know just the perfect place based on Biology/Neuroscience and desire for merit. Answers to what kind of program we should be looking for seem to also be answered by blossom and usbalumnus. We will try to do some college shopping soon and see how she feels about size/location/public. We are hoping she will be able to at least visit her brother’s college when we take him to orientation this summer. Thank you and if anyone has anymore great shout outs for schools with great biology programs…please share :smile:

8

@1Lotus

Really, I think most colleges have a biology major. That shouldn’t be hard to find.

9

Except for the running outdoors issue, which works even in MN for 9-10 mos. of the year (similar for UWis, but Madison isn’t quite as extreme), she should have very wide possibilities. To determine the strength of an undergraduate major (in terms of preparation for graduate work), I like to look at data on the “undergraduate origins of students who complete PhD’s.” Some colleges put this on the admissions office website.

For example, I’ll go to the website of my undergrad school, Reed College (hey, Oregon is to run in!!). Take a look at this page: https://www.reed.edu/ir/phd.html

These data come from the National Science Foundation. Look at “Life Sciences” (which at core is biology). The colleges with the largest percentage of graduates who went on to earn a doctorate: 1) Caltech, 2} Reed, 3) Swarthmore, 4} Carleton [right there in Minnesota!), 5) Grinnell [your stately neighbor in Iowa], 6) MIT, 7) Haverford, 8) Harvey Mudd, 9) Pomona, 10) University of Chicago.

Grinnell is said to be fairly generous with merit aid. I don’t have confirming data. Carleton offered merit aid to my son, but he chose to attend UChicago.

Wisconsin could be advantageous to your daughter because it’s far enough away from home! Yet you get to pay IN-state tuition because of the tuition reciprocity agreement between MN, WI, and a couple of other states. I attended graduate school at UW and made fairly frequent trips to MN because my then future wife had close relatives who lived in Minneapolis. About 4.5 hours by car.

I think this kind of information tells you that a student who attends these colleges can get an outstanding foundation for a career in bioscience. I’m not saying these are the only good schools for that purpose – or that this kind of data is the only information you need – but colleges don’t get high rankings on this scale unless they’ve been doing a very good job for a very long time.

10

Just a caution that one year of high school biology may not be indicative of a future doctorate in the subject. So while her present interest should be encouraged, it may very well change as she is exposed to more advanced classes.

11

@mackinaw great info about PhD. I think in some ways she would ideally like to go to a smaller school for undergrad to have that experience before the bigger schools that would have masters/PhD programs, and I feel that I kind of put some of that in her head since I went to a small school. I am trying to keep an open mind to the larger schools and my husband is an alum on U of MN so that will help her to have his perspective. -She has Grinnell on her radar. I am familiar with the area as I grew up not far from there. When the time comes, I’d like her to have at least one or two public safeties from MN or reciprocity states that I know would be reasonably priced even without any scholarship-although merit would be nice! I didn’t know Carleton merit aid, so I’ll have to research that one a bit for my D. I think you provided great insight to my core concern–whether the smaller schools can prepare her well for graduate level work. I don’t want her to earn degree (in whatever she chooses) and feel that she is not prepared to go on to the next level based on undergraduate college choice.
@roycroftmom-thank you. I have mentioned often that she doesn’t have to know and should feel she is able to change her area of interest now or even after she declares a major. She is still exploring but has Biology on her radar now, but if she changes her mind, I will support her change. She is like her Dad with the Math/Science interest.

12

@1Lotus many…many students change their majors once they are actually enrolled on college. Even if your kid decides to apply as a biology major, there is still the possibility she will change her mind about major once IN college.

And like i said earlier…a student can major in biology at just about every college.

13

Last I checked the only merit aid Carleton offered was $2K/year for a National Merit Finalist. Some southern schools like Alabama or UAH offer good merit aid (and the climate is definitely different from MN). Dakota schools have low costs to start with. Another option is looking at the Midwest Student Exchange Program for discounts:
https://msep.mhec.org/institutions?field_state_term_tid=5&field_program_type_term_tid=12&field_sector_term_tid=All

14

@“Erin’s Dad” : Carleton also does offer limited merit-based scholarships aimed at “middle-income” students and their families. These are called the Fritch and the Strong scholarships. Each is worth $10,000/year, with $4,500 of that amount replacing what would otherwise be college-provided need-based aid. The other $5,500/year represents merit aid, saving the student/family $22,000 during four years of study. I know, as we have benefited from a Fritch Scholarship.

See the following link: https://apps.carleton.edu/campus/sfs/prospective/fritch/

15

If I had a mathy kid with a strong interest in genetics, I would steer her toward looking closely at bioinformatics and computational biology programs. The big data side of genetics is a huge component of what’s going on in that field, and skills in that area are in demand. As you say, most people who focus purely on the biological aspects of genetics will get a fairly general biology education as undergrads, and there’s a massive oversupply of new grads with bio degrees who started out as premeds and either changed their minds or didn’t get in. If your daughter is a quantitative type anyway, spending more time on the computational side of things and less on the straight-biology side could give her a real advantage, depending on what she ultimately wants to do.

However, it’s a lot easier to find undergraduate bioinformatics at bigger schools than at smaller ones, so there’s that. Here’s one smaller school option, with merit potential, just for proof of concept https://www.wpi.edu/academics/study/bioinformatics-computational-biology-bs

16

Thanks for that info @MinnesotaDadof3 . I wonder if those did not exist when my D’s applied some years ago?

17

September 2012 was when the Fritch Scholarship was funded by a 1973 Carleton alum and his wife. The college came up with the Strong Scholarship on its own, I think, soon after the 2016 application cycle ended.

18

@Thumper1-great advice to remember in the search…D has a strong interest in science/math, but great at writing, art and other areas. Are you suggesting not to get too caught up in what school is good at Biology but other areas too?

@aquapt-I’ll look into bioinformatics. Does that involve computers? D has always enjoyed and excelled in math, but not so interested in computers. I’m going to put WPI on the list to check into. So many schools…so little time

@mackinaw-Reed is going on the list too.

@blossom-At this point, she wants continue her education beyond undergraduate and she may change her mind, but that is the current plan. She isn’t really thinking medical doctor. Her Dad and I graduated college, but did not go on to grad school, so she would be first generation beyond undergraduate.

Thank you all—please continue to post ideas.

19

Yes, bioinformatics involves computers… but it’s more about using computers to wrangle the very complex quantitative aspects of genetic information, not so much about studying computers for their own sake. But the thing is that these are the tools that are advancing the field of genetics, especially on a population level. I mean, certainly a person can study genetics and become, for example, a professional genetic counselor, or an MD/PhD researcher, without having a specialty in computational biology. But the computational aspect is important as far as the field in general. Disclaimer - this isn’t my field of expertise, at all, so somebody who understands it deeply would probably be a lot clearer on how opportunities would differ for a student who acquires this computational knowledge base and skill-set vs. one who doesn’t. I’m just coming from a place of feeling that a student with a lot of quantitative aptitude and interest could be well-suited to this area of study, and could find those skills to be highly in demand and perhaps offer a foot in the door to desirable research settings.

Here’s a free UCSD/Coursera course that might shed light on how the programming aspect ties in with the biology and genetics: flagged for moderation (There’s a whole series that follows and gets deeper into DNA analysis and how the computation tools assist with that.)

Edit: why in heaven’s name would CC flag Coursera links? I removed the link so the post would go through - you can find it by searching for the UC San Diego course, “Biology Meets Programming: Bioinformatics for Beginners”

20

I like that you’re considering small schools. While yes, UGs can do research at large institutions, it’s much easier at a small school w/o alot of post grads. I think I would be looking for a school that allows a student to do research on whatever they want. Any school that touts UG research would immediately get my attention, in this case. I think a small to medium sized school, with strong life sciences, and solid humanities depts would be perfect for your D. If she were mine… I think I’d be steering her towards some LACs.

When you start setting up visits, I would also ask to schedule a stop to see the lab facilities. This may seal the deal one way or the other for your D.