I wouldn’t drop W&L over not getting to sit in on a class. Different schools just have different policies. It doesn’t mean they aren’t friendly. ( but didn’t you say you had a neighbor there? - can she go to class with him?)
Anyway because your D seemed to really like Bowdoin but not love BC, it’s probably a good idea to keep W&L on the list. W&L more similar to Bowdoin, BC more similar to Wake.
@beebee3 W&L certainly isn’t for everyone. While many schools espouse an honor code, W&L truly “walks the walk”. In this case, the school articulated a rule (no junior class visits) and then stood behind the rule. This is precisely the conduct the institution expects of its students. If this causes a student to strike the school from his or her list of hopefuls, then that student likely doesn’t belong at W&L.
Oh wow I don’t think not letting prospective students take class shows how they follow the rules. I think it shows they aren’t understanding of people’s time and money. I get that they get a lot of apps and don’t care about one kid but the other schools are just showing what I would expect as courtesy. We don’t really know the student at W&L. He’s the son of someone we went to college with who also has a daughter at Bowdoin. D wouldn’t be comfortable going to class with him.
And, hm, sounds like kids can’t see class at Bowdoin either? I take that back about S going to class at every school. I meant he went to class at every school that we visited during the school year, which was all of his schools except Bowdoin and Colby. I assumed Bowdoin let kids sit in on class. Guess I’m wrong on that. Of course he went to class during admitted student days as one could also do at W&L.
@oldchief78 i don’t think taking a school off because of a rude phone call means that the student doesn’t belong at that school. That’s a stretch. D would be all for an honor code. I’m just not all for driving three hours out of our way for her to just do a tour and info session.
The schools set the rules on what works best for them. Maybe they allowed juniors to attend classes in the past and it was a disaster. Maybe the yield from juniors wasn’t worth the time and expense. Maybe too many juniors were 15 years old and not mature enough to attend classes and weren’t anything like the students on campus.
No one would have a problem with the rule if Princeton or Harvard set it (no visits on Wednesdays or no visits after Easter no juniors no parents along on the visits). The schools are protecting their current students too.
I certainly didn’t mean Bowdoin never offers those things. (I’m pretty sure they do.) Just weren’t offering those options in January when we were there, and weren’t interested in accommodating us despite me using my best puppy dog face.
In my opinion, Wash & Lee has a very strong campus culture that makes it unlike any other school in the country. (The most similiar socially might be the University of Virginia Greek houses/fraternity and sorority system.)
Many W&L applicants also apply to the University of Virginia and to Davidson College.
P.S. In my opinion, students at Wash & Lee might also be comfortable at SMU, USC, & Wake Forest.
If it seems like it will be too tiring and not worth it to squeeze in W and L on your trip, I agree that the other schools you’ll be seeing may be better fits and worth more time. However, I still think your D could get a good feel for W and L with just a tour and info session. It seems like she liked a lot of things about Bowdoin and got a good feel for the environment without going to a class.
@elena13 True about the Bowdoin trip but can’t really compare spending 48 hours with your brother who can show you everything, introduce you to his friends, and get you into multiple dorms and cafeterias. She also knows all about his class experiences. That’s way more info than going to a school, seeing an info session (which we all know isn’t really that helpful) and then walk around campus with one student.
We will see. I’m not cancelling anything right now. If we get to Wake and she meets the dance teachers and goes to multiple dance classes and then wants to stay another day to see more, we will choose to do that. If she thinks at all that she might want to ED to Wake, I’d like to give her more than one day to spend on that campus.
As for Richmond, we are touring on Thursday but not flying out until Sat. She’s taking class on Thursday and can’t take more on Friday because it’s their admitted student day. She could still see more of the campus on Friday and meet with professors.
We will just go with the flow but she could be better served by spending two whole days each at Wake and Richmond. We will see.
@homerdog you will be visiting Wake Forest, Richmond, Davidson, and Washington and Lee…yes?
Despite not sitting in on a class at W and L, I think your D will still be able to get a good feel for the school…given the other schools will be during the same trip and will therefore be fresh in her mind and easier to compare.
@twogirls yes. That’s the list! Davidson first, then Wake, then W&L, then Richmond. And I agree that seeing campuses really helps. W&L checks some boxes for sure and I think it would be good to see two small LACs on this trip so that she can compare them. (Richmond is a LAC but a little bigger and seems different than the others - a little more preprofessional.)
Like I said, we will just see how it goes. Certainly, if she doesn’t like Wake then we go to W&L for sure.
True…once she is there she can decide what she likes, doesn’t like, etc…and will know what to do.
And I agree about Richmond feeling preprofessional compared to WF.
@twogirls I think Richmond is more preprofessional than Davidson and W&L. Not sure when comparing it to Wake. That’s why it came off of S19’s list, but I think it fits D a lot better than S19 for other reasons. I had a long thread going on about Richmond last year when S was making a list. I was concerned it was too “business-y” for S19 and I didn’t feel like I was proven wrong on that even though plenty of liberal arts kids and parents of them spoke up in the thread to say they were happy with their history/bio/English, etc. experience there.
I think Wake is also preprofessional since they have a business school.
W and L came off as preprofessional to us…maybe it was the stock market display at the business school combined with how the students were dressed on that particular day…who knows.
Wake also had a preprofessional vibe…but it came across as less preprofessional than Richmond, at least to me.
I meant Richmond…not W and L.
First time you mentioned the call was rude. In fact, first time I ever heard someone from W&L was rude on the phone but I suppose there’s a first for everything. W&L follows its rules and expects all students will as well. They apparently have a rule against HS juniors visiting a class and they stood by it. If the student decides to strike the school because they followed their rule, then that student likely cannot appreciate the culture or the school. Like I said, it’s not for everyone. If they strike the school simply because they can’t visit a class, then they will miss the tour and an opportunity to mingle with students on campus.
We visited a school spring junior year and were told juniors could not attend class. I had no problem with. Until… the family we toured with told us their son had just stayed overnight and attended classes. Turns out he was an athlete that was being recruited. It really made us feel like there were insiders and outsiders. we were outsiders in such an uncomfortable way that DS didn’t even apply. Maybe we were too thin-skinned but it felt bad to see that there were 2 sets of rules. So I get the hard-nosed approach.
Oh gosh @oldchief78
First, I haven’t even told D about the call. Second, it wouldn’t be the sole reason we would take a school off of the list. If she really wants to see it then we will go.
Maybe I shouldn’t have used the word “rude” but the rep did hurry me off of the line with no explanation as to why juniors can sit in class. If I compare that phone call to the ones I’ve had to other schools, something just seemed off to me. It’s just one phone call though. I get that.
FWIW: Driving anywhere in Virginia & in North Carolina is a wonderful experience. Lots of natural beauty that gives one a bit of a deeper appreciation for the area/region.
It’s not the “rule” that bums me out. It’s that D will not be able to get the same insight of the school that she will get at the other three. She will go to a psych class at Davidson and tour and then meet with the director of the audition dance group who will show us around. Then she will go to Wake and go to, most likely, multiple classes and meet with multiple dance teachers as well as sit in on an academic class and do the campus tour. At Richmond, we will tour and she will sit in on a class and meet with the dance chair. Compare those experiences to going to any fourth school where will just get the tour and info session. It just won’t be apples to apples. I want to spend our time wisely. I’ll have D read more about W&L and she can make the call after our Wake visit. That seems like a reasonable plan to me.
But what if she sits in on a bad or boring class ?
Does one class truly reflect the typical academic experience at any school ?
More time to explore other aspects of the school.