I agree, especially the sad part. What you are seeing is almost certainly the tip of the iceberg- it may like an over reaction because of all the pieces she hasn’t shown. It is extremely frustrating to work hard to try and give your child a nuanced message of work hard, try hard, but we love you no matter what the outcome is- and see them blow right by that and be more concerned about what their near peers are doing. Fwiw, I am pretty confident that your daughter is keenly aware that her college apps will be evaluated in context, so how her friends do could end up mattering, esp if the two of them apply to the same fancy name school.
Once the kids get started on their college lists with their GC I strongly recommend:
focus intensively on identifying a safety first. The key metric for choosing it should be certainty of admission + affordability, plus- crucially- it should be a place that she will not cry if it’s the only option come spring of senior year. That is going to be very, very hard to find. If your budget allows for it, consider adding a UK or Irish option: for most of them (not Oxbridge or LSE or a couple of others), meeting the stated requirements nearly guarantees an offer, and b/c it’s outside the US there is an extra ‘cool’ factor. For a number of them she is likely to hear before winter break.
encourage her to NEVER name a school as her ‘dream’ school except maybe to a true BFF- and best not even there. Instead, have her work on developing a strong list of likelies and matches, looking for a specific reason that each one is on the list- looking especially hard for ones that are not on the list of “usual suspects” that her classmates are looking at. Every time she finds one, talk it up for a bit- “I found this program at [unfamiliar / not “A” list school] where you get to do this amazing thing. It’s so cool- I could X and Y and Z”. Then another school and another. This does 2 things: first, it takes the pressure off the class knowing that she is hoping for X- and thus the fear of failure if X doesn’t happen. That brings the underlying pressure down a notch. Second, and rather usefully, it gets her looking seriously at a range of options, and starts the framing of her 'why us ’ essays.
If your school doesn’t explicitly have this policy, try and encourage it amongst the parents you know: from spring of junior year until the student announces a final college destination, the adults never, ever, ask their kid’s friends/fellow students about college / college plans. 100% let the kids determine when and how they discuss it with adults.
Visit colleges as early as you can. They don’t have to be ones she’s specifically interested in. Just pick a small, medium and large that are close to home, ideally one of which is a safety. Then she can start to wrap her head around what she wants size wise. You can also have her give a real look around the safety school and say could you see yourself here? If it’s a well picked safety, the answer will be yes. Then you can say all the pressure is off. This one’s in the bag even if you get a poor grade or two or don’t perform to your expectations on the SAT/ACT. Anything above this is just icing on the cake.
Many thanks. Highly sensible advice. We actually live in the UK and D22 will be applying to schools in the UK and US. We’ve told her the top schools are ultra competitive (and outcomes are unpredictable) and that she’ll be fine wherever she ends up for college.
In support of that notion, I know a former NASA employee that managed a very large, well known program. He had dual PhDs in Math and Physics. He straight up said it doesn’t matter where your son goes to study engineering. What matters is curiosity and drive. He went on to say that some of his most pedestrian engineers were Caltech grads where he taught, and some of the best went to “Podunk U.”
In further support, none of the NASA facility directors went to big name, exclusive schools for undergrad. Most of them went to fairly random state schools.
Borrowing from another poster: at the top schools, it’s not that you are rejected- it’s that you weren’t selected. Small word difference, but a world of difference in meaning.
OP- it’s concerning that the non-academic interests you mention are competitive in nature- athletics and music competitions. Why not encourage her to spend time on things that have no ranking/best/worst at all instead of having her mired in a competitive mindset (even if she doesn’t mind not being “the best” in music?)
Life is filled with things that have no ranking. Is Picasso “better” than Vermeer? Is Bach superior to Chopin? Even the people who would say yes- understand that perceptions of artistic merit are subjective.
You can get her off the rat race she’s stuck on. And since you’re posting to an anonymous message board- I’d say you SHOULD. Anxious teenagers become anxious adults, and perfectionism can be a real curse in adulthood. Physically, emotionally, etc.
Does she have things in her life that aren’t competitive? Baking with grandma? Helping out an elderly neighbor? Babysitting toddlers? Volunteering at a food pantry??? Get her out of the winner/loser mode while she is still living with you…
I’ve been reflecting further on your post and I think we sometimes take our academic and professional achievements for granted and forget the luck factor involved. As an example, one of us used to work at an MBB and we have friends who are/were at those firms. So, we think getting a job there is within the realm of possibility (not necessarily pushing them in that direction but not reacting, “No way, that’s impossible!”), forgetting that it’s akin to winning the lottery. I can see how that could put enormous pressure on our teenage kids - not necessarily in what say to them but in our demeanor. But what should we do in this case?
Thanks. D22 bakes, volunteers and do other things purely for pleasure. So, her life is not consumed by non-stop competition.
Thanks, everyone, for your helpful responses and suggestions. I am not sure there’s any one solution but we’ll keep trying to help her to not put so much pressure on herself (and we’ll be more aware of our own actions and behaviors).
That’s quite insightful. I think active, daily daily expression of gratitude, and having time for reflection, meditation, prayer /counting one’s blessings can help.
Just letting her know you’ll miss her and you love her.
Perfectionism and competitiveness aren’t the same thing. Perfectionism is absolute, not relative. and a perfectionist doesn’t care what others do. Regardless, both are primarily personal traits and little can be done to moderate either, especially perfectionism (competitiveness may be temperarily kept hidden in a highly uncompetitive environment).
Don’t agree with the dichotomy you are making… I know too many women in their 20’s whose perfectionism/competitiveness ended up with them being treated for eating disorders (notoriously hard to treat), anxiety, cutting, etc. I’m not a therapist, but even a “family friend” like myself could see the trainwreck coming during the teenage years.
Some were the classic perfectionists-spending time on stupid school assignments to get the “extra credit”, for example. (Is there a difference between an A and an A+ when you are in HS, and is that difference meaningful?) Some were just the “go-getter” types that everyone admires- but they couldn’t let go, couldn’t be a kid who could say “I’m getting a B in Latin because I’m not good at foreign languages, but I’m getting A’s in math and bio which is where my strengths are”. And some were just downright competitive- they heard a classmate was getting tutored in physics, so they wanted a tutor (even though their grades were fine). They observed that a friend was staying late at school to meet with teachers, so they started doing it too under the guise of “review sessions”.
Parents and teachers unwittingly encourage these behaviors- why would you discourage a go-getter or someone who is always trying to do better?
Meanwhile I’m reading posts here from parents about asking for a test to be rechecked because 1 answer was marked missing and asking what to do if their child gets a B.
In both cases, let it go, life will go on. In the one case, the kid was sick for a month. Hell, I’d be stoked for a B after that. I think parents are often not realizing how much pressure is being put on kids.
If a kid is self harming by cutting, I think parents have no issue rushing in and trying to improve the kids mental health. Yet when a child is anxious and a perfectionist, parents seems to do nothing because they are proud of the end result which is often great grades and bragging rights. Both situations are emotionally harmful to the kid and parents need to step in for both.
What you described are competitive behaviors. I don’t necessarily associate them with perfectionism. To me, perfectionists need things to be absolutely perfect (in their eyes), regardless whether people around them are also perfectionists. They’re driven, not by competitiveness, but by their own desires.
It can absolutely be a symptom of an anxiety disorder. Does she have an uninvolved third party she can talk to? Having that, or therapy, as a resource can really make a difference in her ability to prioritize and how she copes with disappointment.
Update: D22 is calmer and more rational this morning (and, dare I say, even a bit upbeat).
I think she figured out quickly yesterday that neither of her parents were going to indulge her on this occasion (it’s like when she was two - when she fell, if I expressed concern, she would often cry. If I pretended not to have noticed (of course, having checked that she wasn’t hurt), she’d pick herself up and carry on).
OP is in the UK where perfectionism in class doesn’t need to be a thing, all you have to do is perform well in GCSE and A level exams (plus Oxbridge admission tests/interviews). You can be brilliant but lazy, and if you are good at high stakes tests you will have great success in that system.
But a kid who is applying to the US, where class grades are more important than anything else, then has to be perfect in class as well, and do a bunch of ECs in order to be competitive for top schools.
The pressure involved in trying to succeed in both systems, especially when you are not immersed in the US system day in day out (where grading is often pretty generous, extra credit is offered etc, unlike the UK), seems very likely to enhance any latent perfectionism.
So I wonder if downplaying the focus on US admissions might help? After all, if she gets into Oxbridge, at UK domestic prices, it is hard to imagine any US alternative offering better value for money.
@LostInTheShuffle While you know your child far better than random strangers on the internet, I would heed the words of @blossom and @PetraMC I don’t want to be needlessly alarmist, but do keep an eye on her as a “game” can be masking something more serious or might become more serious. I understand from personal experience that it can be wearying to deal with tears over what might seem like vanishingly trivial problems. But especially given the strains of the pandemic, it’s probably worth keeping an eye on. Good luck!
