D3 roster spot offer and ED apps?

Hello all, question about D3 procedures – my kid has been on the trail, meeting coaches through junior year, doing camps, back on campus for follow ups etc. At one of his top choice schools, the coach sat down with us and was quite specific about where he sees my kid playing on this team, when he can expect to be a starter, what sort of impact he would have on the team, what the expectations are etc. My kid is happy to “commit” to this school and program by applying ED.

Here is the question: is it the norm to get some kind of written confirmation that the kid has a spot? Or is it all face to face and just not “done” to put anything “in writing.” We certainly heard the “offer” but in our professional, adult lives, would expect some kind of confirming email. Is that the norm in D3 sports, and more specifically, soccer? Or are we using the wrong vocabulary/expectations?

MWMoB,

Congrats on the fruits of your kid’s hard work. It looks like it was worth the time and effort.

Hmmm. . . written confirmation of a “spot.” I doubt that a coach would provide the confirmation, or if he or she did, that it would be enforceable if something fell through. Hey, it’s college sports. Things happen – injuries, coach retiring or changing jobs, talent doesn’t pan out as projected, or a different phenom sprouts out from the wings. The coach is there to win games, not to keep every recruiting promise he or she made.

I think you could confirm the coach’s support through admissions – which is what really matters – in an email to the coach. If you want, you could reference making the team (at least the first year) in the email.

Good luck!

If your son did did an overnight and connected on social media with some of the team, he should be able to get an idea of their respect for the coach by reaching out to them. If the coach is well respected by the players, I would think that he can be trusted. That is clearly an important factor in choosing a team. We went through this last year, and there was nothing in writing; it was all based on trust. And everything has played out as expected.

If “spot” = roster spot, then the scenario you are concerned about is a real long shot. This is what would have to happen:

Coach highlights the ED application to the Admissions Office, indicating he would like the applicant to be admitted based on the applicant’s athletic ability. Applicant is admitted. Roster comes out next year, and applicant’s name is not there.

Coach would be summoned to the Admissions Office pronto with a whole lot of 'splainin to do. If an applicant is supported by a coach in the D3 Admissions process, and admitted, you can be very sure the applicant will show up on the roster.

After that, as other posters have alluded to, it all depends on circumstances whether the roster spot is kept or how much playing time is granted.

So whether your son (you don’t want do this in any event) asks for written confirmation probably should be based on your assessment of risk/reward. The risk is the scenario described above, and the possibility you will tick off the coach. The reward? Not a whole lot, I think, because if the coach is as duplicitous and untrustworthy as you are trying to protect against, the glow of being listed on the initial roster would fade pretty quickly when it gets time for such a coach to figure out stuff such as playing time and travel squads.

Thank you all! We trust the coach, and the program, we’re just used to, as adults, getting things confirmed. So the idea that there wouldn’t be something like that, in this context, is outside our experience. Coach has been clear about roster spot for how long, what kid needs to do to keep after year 1 etc. And we have spoken to current parents who gush about how happy their kid, and they, are with the program, and how upfront and reliable the coaching staff is. Fairly long time coach, not likely to jump ship any time soon, though assistants can always be expected to turn over given greener pastures elsewhere. We just need to trust, I will work on that!

I agree with @fenwaypark. If there is support from the coach, something very very strange would have to happen for the recruit not to be rostered the next year. The talk about how soon a particular high school athlete will start on a college team, I probably would look at as nothing but puffery. No coach, even the very best, can accurately project how all the kids on the roster will develop, or as importantly who will stay healthy.

As far as getting assurances of a roster spot in writing, I have never heard of a college coach providing such, and I wonder if it might not be looked upon as impermissible recruiting if it did happen. On top of that, I am not confident that the message I would advise my son to send to the coach is that he so lacks confidence in his skills and ability to compete that he wants a written assurance he is good enough to be on the team. I know you don’t mean it that way, but I would be concerned that is the way a coach would view it.

YIkes, didn’t think about it as subject to the interpretation that kid doesn’t trust that he is good enough, but I can see that. We looked at it in terms of giving up other opportunities elsewhere and choosing this one, so figuring there would be some kind of mutual “I do.” But really, from the coach’s side, we heard that in the visit, and from our kid’s side, when he applies ED, he is saying yes. And of course, there are no guarantees as to what could happen in the future. My, there are so many possible missteps in all this. It will be a relief to get back to just worrying about the usual stuff. . . .

Well, did you ask for, and get a “pre-read”. That’s considered normal.It means that the coach went to admissions with your child’s application, and they looked at it, and said, “yes, It’s likely your DS will be accepted”.
If the coach hedges or says that it isn’t necessary, you MAY be in trouble. They do the pre-read with scores and transcripts, you don’t have to send in the full ED application.
I hate to bring this story up again, but my son was very much mislead by the Williams swim coach several years ago. We didn’t know enough and didn’t want to press, and my son had been told " I can pick my swimmers". A CC poster told us to get a “pre-read”, and that’s when all the trouble started.
First “the admissions Office was busy”. Then “they were all on the road”. Finally, literally 2 days before the ED deadline the coach called to confess that my son didn’t have a spot on the team, and wouldn’t “likely” be accepted without full support. This was because I had reached out to the assistant coach with whom I had made a connection and begged her to tell us the truth.
It could have been a total “D3 Disaster”, but we hadn’t burned all our bridges, and the Midd coach still wanted my son, got a favorable pre-read in the 2 days left, and my son used his ED on the school that wanted him.
So be careful! 80% of recruited athletes are accepted…not 100 percent, and in D3 you really don’t have anything but a wink and a handshake. I could quote our former president-“trust, but verify…”

I’m a bit confused here. @Midwestmomofboys : were you asking about how to confirm that your athlete had a slot/support for admissions before committing to an ED application? Or were you concerned about an active spot on the team next year, once admitted?

@classicalmama Thx – I am asking the former, confirmation for support rather than a promise for spot as a freshman.

This is where we are: met with coach as part of overnight, including interview, class visit, hang out with team, meals with asst etc – this trip followed prior visits including recruiting camp. This trip, Coach was quite clear about wants him, where he sees him on the field and on the roster. As a parent doing this for the first – and only time, I thought the next step was my kid saying something like, “yes, you are the one for me, before I apply ED, am I your guy?” But I’m starting to understand its something more like “Coach do I have your support?”

Kid is well qualified for admission, its a match rather than a reach, we’ve been focused on merit award rather than acceptance. Admissions has transcript and resume from interview and we have post-visit merit estimate from Admissions. I didn’t think about it in terms of “support” from coach, since I thought of that as a “boost” for a kid who might be on the fence academically.

What I’m hearing is that “support” is more like saying, “Admissions, yes, we want him for our athletic program.”

One of these days I’ll figure this out, maybe. Thank heaven for CC.

@Midwestmomofboys, I think you are on track. I think that there are recruited players and walk ons for most college sports. A recruited player is someone who the coach has actively sought out as a member of the athletic team. The inducement used by the coach in this effort changes depending on the level and kind of program, from scholarship money in regular D1 and D2, to likely letters in the Ivy, to support with admissions in D3. Whether the kid needs the benefit of the inducement is not really the issue. As an example, I know a kid playing at a FCS school right now who was offered a pretty nice athletic scholarship. He turned it down because he received a Dean’s award that covered his full cost of attendance. But he was still a recruit, and still treated the same as the other scholarship players. I would think your son would fit into that category.

All that said, I would take the admissions boost if available. You never know, and every little bit helps!

So “spot” = coach support in the admissions process, correct?

Best thing is to just ask the coach, but most of the time in D3, the coach does not have “spots” or “slots”. Most of the time the coach highlights the application of an athlete being recruited, which amounts to a “tipping” factor in the recruit’s favor in the admissions process. So even if you had a notarized agreement that the coach is supporting the recruit, that is no guarantee of admission. You can ask the coach how many of his supported recruits were admitted in recent years.

Again, I think the answer to your question about whether you want your son to ask for confirmation in writing that the coach is supporting him should be based on your (your son’s) personal risk/reward tolerances. Risk: you tick off the coach because he feels his integrity is being impugned. Reward: not too much, because even with a written agreement that the coach has expressed support, Admissions is under no obligation to accept.

Note that the Ivy League is different in that coaches have slots to offer. The key is to be offered a slot, not necessarily a likely letter. See this from TierOne Athletics:

http://www.tier1athletics.org/category/ivy-league-academics/academic-index-ivy-league-academics/

If it helps to think about your question it in terms similar to what @fenwaypark is laying out, then the likely letter is the written confirmation you are seeking, whereas the quote from @varska’s website is where you feel your son is at present. In addition to the likely letter, in at least the vast majority of cases, the NLI signed in D1 and D2 is written confirmation of a coach’s support for a recruit. However, neither of those vehicles are available in most D3 schools, so I am not sure how that helps your situation.

There is another thread on here where the question of likely letters in D3 was raised. I believe that one poster said that likely letters were provided by Emory. I have heard anecdotally that Johns Hopkins provides something similar but do not know how accurate that is. None of the D3s recruiting my son offered anything but verbal assurance of support through admissions. Based on what I have read here and the two guys I personally know playing at high academic D3 schools verbal assurance of support and sometimes an academic pre read is the norm.

My screen name has been invoked, so want to clarify that I am not saying a likely letter is the written confirmation you are seeking from the coach.

You are (possibly) seeking written confirmation from the coach that he will support your son in the admissions process, and you know that coaches cannot confirm or guarantee Admissions decisions at most high academic D3s and Ivies.

Likely letters are issued at the discretion of Admissions Offices, not coaches, and are tantamount to letters of acceptance.

Side note: Hopkins is D3 in most sports but is D1 in lax…and usually an NCAA championship tournament team. Fully expect slots and possible likely letters to be available for Hopkins D1 lax recruiting.

I am sure this will set off another flurry of posts, but the kid being recruited at JHU plays baseball, not LAX.

At the end of the day, it sounds like what you are looking for is some written, tangible evidence that your son is being sought out by the coach, so that your son is not in a position where the coach forgets about him once he is “in the bag”. It is a natural and understandable reaction, because once your son sends in his application, all of the power in the relationship shifts to the coach. Unfortunately, in most cases, the best you have to go on is your own impressions of the sincerity of the coach and, if you are lucky, the impressions of some parents of current or former players.

Good luck.

Thank you all, again. The coach was quite clear about my kid’s role, and we are comfortable with that description, plus the parents of current players raved about integrity of the coaches, the program etc. I just need to exhale.

Yep. Sounds like you are on the right track!

In all honesty, the only thing that will calm the jitters is getting that thick envelope (or email). The process naturally invites stress.

I have seen coaches convey various things in writing, including positive pre-reads (which probably is stronger than the coach promising to support an application through admissions). I have also known athletes who ask in an email whether the coach will provide support through admissions, and the coach confirms the support in a reply email. This could be done delicately, without making it look like you don’t trust the coach’s word. How about a variation on an email like “Coach, thank you very much for arranging the overnight. I really liked ______ University and I want to play _______ for your team. You mentioned applying early, which I am happy to do with your support.” Thank you for your help through the application process."

If that type of email make you feel a little better, I think it would be fine. You might even get a reply back giving you more comfort. Don’t expect the jitters to go away,however, until your kid is accepted.

Nescac schools have slots. With a positive pre read and a slot, it generally takes a smoking gun onn the Ed application to not get in.

Just curious…do the Ivy League likely letters happen before or after the student submits their ED aapplication?