<p>I have already gone to the CAS career advisor, who suggested that I talk to a pre-law advisor, so I made an appointment with him in a week. However, I have noticed several people here advising me to take a gap year especially since I’m graduating early.
I understand that law is definitely a stabler track than English, and sometimes I wish that I managed to transfer into Wharton (or at least understood math, science, or engineering… which I really don’t… trust me), but I’ve already declared my major and can’t change it at this point.
Thanks guys for your advice! I think meeting with the pre-law advisor will really help.</p>
<p>Law is anything but a “stable career”.</p>
<p>There have been many threads on CC from lawyers that discourage current undergraduate students from going to law school. If anything, they understate the warning.</p>
<p>There is a VAST over-supply of lawyers.</p>
<p>So I would only advise you going to law school if you really want to be a lawyer, which you don’t.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, it seems that every liberal arts major winds up going to law school.</p>
<p>They are often misinformed, from watching too much TV, and listening to the few people who have become success stories in the law.</p>
<p>I would strongly suggest you think very seriously about this, before you commit three years of your time, and all that money.</p>
<p>I speak now not only from my own experience as a lawyer, but also based upon the experiences of a myriad of other lawyers I know.</p>
<p>I read that half the law school graduates this year did not find jobs in the legal field.</p>
<p>It’s funny, I know quite a few physicians who advise others not go into medicine. I also know quite a few engineers who discourage their children from going into engineering. The only few I know who think their profession is golden is dentistry. OP, do what you think you should do. Even nine out of ten lawyers fail in their endeavor, it still means someone who can make it. That someone could be you. Also, you’re smart enough to transfer to Penn, you could be smart enough to get in the top tier law schools. That’s quite different than going to Cooley.</p>
<p>“Even [if]nine out of ten lawyers fail in their endeavor, it still means someone who can make it. That someone could be you.”; this is terrible advice-especially for someone who doesn’t want to be a lawyer! And that totally ignores the 9 who are left with a degree they can’t use and $100-150k debt. How are they going to pay the bills?
There are countless posters-it is an anonymous forum after all-who give routinely terrible advice that ignores the facts. Bottom line: the Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates the country produces twice as many JDs as there are lawyer jobs. And pick five law schools at random and go to their websites. Take a look at the employment statistics listed. And for some of the schools, ask yourself-why did this law school hire its own graduates?(HINT: To artificially inflate the number of graduates employed at 9 months).
It’s a terrible idea to do something because someone else told you to do it-and you’ll be the one carrying the debt, studying for the bar, etc. If you want to go to law school, go-study hard, get a high LSAT, get into a good school. But anyone-stranger or relative alike-who tells you to go to law school, well, just because, is giving you terrible advice. When all is said and done, who is going to pay the debt? Not them…</p>
<p>The most salient point here is that OP doesn’t want to be a lawyer. How is that not the end of the conversation?</p>
<p>I didn’t advise OP to go to law school. I advised “OP, do what you think you should do”. How is that terrible?</p>
<p>PADad: humanities PhDs don’t take on $200,000 worth of debt. There is also the shocking, low brow approach of getting a job, working your way up, and figuring out what advanced degree, if any, would be needed in that job.</p>
<p>I don’t necessarily agree with the advice OP’s dad gives. However, I see where that advice comes from. OP is an English major that has no marketable work experience nor skills. In today’s economy, well, that’s not looking so rosy for OP’s future.</p>
<p>I have some friends who are on food stamps, after graduating with humanities degrees from college, 3 years ago. These guys are intelligent, hard working, competent, young people who are supposed to be ‘full of potential’. Heck, I know one guy from my school who ended up taking a job driving trucks, after getting a BA in biology.</p>
<p>I know people nowadays are being more aware of potential downside of a law degree, but a law degree may work out very well for some. It totally depends on someone’s opportunity cost of pursuing law school, other careers that may be available, which law schools you get into, scholarship amounts you get, etc. </p>
<p>But, back to OP: neither a PhD in humanities nor a JD, if you don’t have any interest in law, looks to be the most promising choice. So, pick your poison. If I were you, I would do anything in my power to take advantage of UPenn’s campus recruiting and try to line up a decent entry level corporate job. Take a look at consulting, I-banking, corporate finance, etc.</p>
<p>your dad is an idiot operating under 40-year-old assumptions. You have a better chance of making money as a plumber than a law grad these days. Please show him the following articles:</p>
<p>[Inside</a> the Law School Scam](<a href=“http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/]Inside”>http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/)
<a href=“For Law School Graduates, Debts if Not Job Offers - The New York Times”>For Law School Graduates, Debts if Not Job Offers - The New York Times;
[The</a> Economics of Law School - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/09/24/the-economics-of-law-school/]The”>The Economics of Law School - The New York Times)
[Sorry</a>, Bartleby « Above the Law: A Legal Web Site ? News, Commentary, and Opinions on Law Firms, Lawyers, Law Schools, Law Suits, Judges and Courts + Career Resources](<a href=“http://abovethelaw.com/2012/10/sorry-bartleby/]Sorry”>http://abovethelaw.com/2012/10/sorry-bartleby/)</p>
<p>You may also read an ENTIRE book “Don’t go to law school (unless)” about how going to law school will leave you broke, in debt, unable to live your life, miserable, etc. </p>
<p>You should have no issues</p>
<p>Don’t go to law school if you don’t want to be a lawyer.</p>
<p>A sizable percentage of people who did want to be lawyers find out later that they don’t, really.</p>
<p>Law school makes sense if you can get into a top 6 law school, or a lower T14 school with hefty scholarship. Anything outside of that, I wouldn’t recommend.</p>
<p>People forget how brutal job market is for liberal arts grads. In this economy, graduating with a humanities degree with no marketable work experience, such as I-banking summer internship, is basically the kiss of death.</p>
<p>NYULawyer: with all due respect, you have a very warped view of what constitutes a good entry-level job.</p>
<p>I know people who got into upper, upper management at very large companies who started off in crummy jobs. I know people who started off earning $25k a year and now have very rewarding, remunerative careers - and who moved up the ladder really fast.</p>
<p>(Not to psychoanalyse you, but I’m guessing that your parents were older when they had you. I, on the other hand, remember living in my grandparents’ basement - and grew up watching my parent’s career take off. Ergo, your whole 'tude about people’s lives being oh-so-horrible if they don’t earn $60k right out of the gate, just makes me laugh.)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Not if you don’t want to be a lawyer it doesn’t.</p>
<p>@ariesathena My parents aren’t actually “older” persay… mom had me when I was 28, and my dad was about the same age (although he’s technically my stepdad… but whatever). I know my dad is trying to help me out because, while he’s extremely successful now, he knows that he wasted a lot of time in his undergrad and 20s by not doing anything (and dropping out of grad school) and doesn’t want me to do the same. I have the meeting with the pre-law advisor this Friday so fingers crossed that he gives me some good advice.
That said, since I’ll be graduating early, would it really be that unreasonble to take a gap year? I’d love to even for an internship, but dad claims that I should “get a head start with law” or “bump up my resume with a dual degree” so I can have a masters/JD by 24…</p>
<p>I wonder if your Dad has any idea how many underemployed and unemployed attorneys would love to switch places with him right now. More cluelessness unfortunately in the advice to bump up your resume with a dual degree - waste of time for law school.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>For some, it’s a choice between waiting tables after getting a BA in liberal arts, or heading back to grad school to take another shot at a career job.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yeah. I also happen to know quite a few of my classmates from college with liberal arts or life sciences degrees - a top 15 college in the nation - who ended up in their parents’ basement unemployed, working bs retail jobs, or ‘freelancing’ as SAT tutors in their neighborhoods, 3 years after graduating from college. I am sure some people end up doing fine long-term, but let me tell you, some of these people I know are really struggling. After all, when many JD’s are $hit out of luck for any legit jobs, you can bet that many BA’s with no marketable skills are even more out of luck for entry level white collar jobs.</p>
<p>To OP, </p>
<p>Working a year or two before law school is the norm. At least for the schools that my D applied - all within T14 - only ~24% of the enrolled students go straight from undergraduate. Many law schools view work experience as a positive. In fact Northwestern would only take on students who have worked. The school actually admit highly qualified students in UG with a hefty scholarship on the provision that they take a year off. My D works in a consulting firm for a year before she applied, and one of her LOR is from the firm. </p>
<p>Maximizing your chance to get into a good law school is important for career outcome. Secondly, even good law schools such as UPenn give out merit scholarships so that if work experience adds weight to your application, go for it. I did not know any of these before my D started her process, and it is not necessarily common knowledge for most of us patents. Good that you have conversations with your stepdad. Best,</p>
<p>OP doesn’t want to go to law school, and the person giving him advice is not a lawyer and has never been to law school. Seems pretty clear OP ought to stay far, far away from law school.
And can’t agree with NY’s advice; this isn’t either or. If you’re unemployed with a BA, it’s not a good idea to take on three years of debt-to the tune of $150K±in the hopes that maybe you’ll get a job. This week USNWR released its “best” law schools; several of the T-14 had employment rates at graduation in the 70 percentile, at least one in the
60s. And take a look for today’s third tier reality for Prof Campos’ take on the debt load taken on by many students.
If you’re fired up to be a lawyer and get into T-14, maybe it’s worth the risk. But OP doesn’t want to be a lawyer. No way someone like that should roll the dice on law school.</p>
<p>
I don’t disagree with you, but (a) there’s a whole spectrum of life outcomes between “living in your parent’s basement” and “pulling down $70k a year at age 22 in i-banking”; and (b) in this economy, it takes a long, long time to get your foot in the door, but things change a lot between the early twenties and the late twenties.</p>
<p>(My suggestion to your friends, if you feel like passing it along, is to sign up with every temp agency out there. They might get stupid jobs, like answering phones or stuffing envelopes, but some agencies will place them doing things like creating databases, and the companies will then hire on full-time. A lot of my friends got in via temp agencies and moved up pretty fast.)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’m frankly unsure you’re right about this as a factual matter, but even if you are “grad school” is a lot broader than “law school” and the other options seem to quickly drown out law school in the face of the OP doesn’t want to be a lawyer.</p>