<p>I'm an undergrad at UPenn right now. I'm a junior, but I transferred so this is my first year here and I will be graduating early. I'm an English major, which I chose because I love English. However, knowing that English is a hard field to get work in, my dad is trying to persuade me quite forcefully to go to law school but only has done so since the beginning of this year.
While I understand his thoughts about law as a stable career, I honestly have no desire or passion for law. Plus I don't think I am capable of handling the work when I have no interest in it. When I told him this, he claimed that I could "use a law degree in anything." I even told him that I'd consider it but suggested a gap year to make sure that it was something I could really do (especially because of expenses), he said no despite the fact that I'll be graduating at 20. He said that I could use that extra year to "get an extra degree" by doing a dual degree in English/something else and law.
I also have a passion for psychology/psychiatry, and if I was allowed to get the full four years in college (when he found out Penn said I'd be graduating early, he refused to let me stay for the extra year), I would've double majored in English and psychology so that I could consider psychology for grad school despite my love for English.
Any suggestions or thoughts? I don't know if I could change his mind, but honestly, everything's going so fast and I just don't know if I should just do what my dad says even though I have no passion for law simply because it's a "law degree."</p>
<p>I would never take sides in someone else’s family discussions, but you can suggest that your Dad educate himself about the current value of a law school education by looking at blogs such as Inside the Law School Scam and Above the Law.</p>
<p>Tell your dad that you will go if he will pay the entire cost. </p>
<p>Now, for you, please look into what it takes to work in psychology. If you want to be a psychiatrist, you need a MD. If you want to do certain types of psychology, you will need a Ph.D. Clinical psych PhD programmes have an acceptance rate of around 5%, and about 25% of those students never “match” for an internship. (Fun times, right?) Oh, the PhD is six years of your life, which often puts you in grad school in your thirties.</p>
<p>I am the last to say “Go to law school if you don’t know what you want to do with your life,” but don’t run off towards psychology unless the grueling academics (that put the JD to shame) are worth it.</p>
<p>Incidentally, what does your dad do for a living? I ask because I see a lot of kids who come from upper-middle class backgrounds, are told to follow their dreams, and then can’t figure out why they aren’t living the life that their parents, who aren’t following their dreams but are pursuing well-paying, stable careers, have. </p>
<p>Yes, many parents try to, badly, point out to their kids that their current path is going to result in a dramatic drop in their standard of living, and that they will not be able to afford the lifestyle that they were given as children. </p>
<p>Now, law school isn’t a ticket to that lifestyle, these days - I would tell someone to be a dentist, an accountant, or the like - but that is probably where your dad is coming from.</p>
<p>You should definitely not follow your dad’s advice. I think the best way to convince him is to collect the series of articles the New York Times did on law schools and give them to him. You can also do calculations of debt at graduation. The size of that figure deters most people on its own. If that doesn’t work come back because there are plenty of other deterrence sources.</p>
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<p>This tells me your Dad knows nothing about law and practicing law.</p>
<p>To OP</p>
<p>Your are a transfer in your junior year. When you said you will graduate early, does it mean this summer or next winter? In either case, it is too late to take the LSAT and apply to law schools at this time. </p>
<p>I would not give advice without knowing your circumstances. Given that you have a full ride at Penn, I would think that your circumstance merits full need-based financial aids. If this is the case, it may be important to know that law school financial aids work differently. It is more merit based than need based.</p>
<ol>
<li>It’s too late to apply to law school for this fall, so you’ve got time;</li>
<li>Don’t go to law school unless you want to practice law. Period. The oldest canard in the book is “you can do anything with a law degree”; you can’t. You can practice law.</li>
<li> I strongly recommend having your father read law school transparency/third tier reality/etc to see what the market for lawyers is really like.</li>
<li>All that said, it’s your career and your life; make decisions that work for you.</li>
</ol>
<p>For the record, I agree that law school is a terrible idea, especially if you do not want to be a lawyer. (You don’t need to be passionate about being a lawyer, but you need to be able to stomach the idea of being a lawyer for 18 hours a day for many years.) But I think that the most effective way to move past this particular issue is to say that you’ll consider it if your dad pays for it - then show him how much it costs, how little merit aid is available, and how taking merit aid can dramatically reduce your chances of finding a remunerative, stable job.</p>
<p>(“I’m not passionate about that!” “You need a stable job!” is going to go in circles. “I’ll consider it if you pay for it” at least ends the discussion.)</p>
<p>It would be a mistake even if Dad paid for it, although I assume this is just an effort to call his bluff. My advice to a kid whose parents are willing to pay for law school is to bargain with them for a cash settlement and sock that money away to start a business later on or just to have as a cushion. </p>
<p>Others are right that a law degree is for practicing law only. We’ll ignore the fact that it doesn’t even prepare you to do that. Having a law degree does not open other doors.</p>
<p>Sorry about the late response… I’ve been super busy with school and work and totally forgot about this thread.
My dad double majored in economics and English in undergrad and got accepted to an Ivy League school for grad school and dropped out. He does graphic designing/marketing right now, and he’s quite successful in it… but he’s always telling me about how he wasted his 20s and wish he stayed and got a law degree or at least finished grad school.
The main reason why I want to do psych is because while I know that it’ll be longer and gruelling, I am genuinely interested in psych and would be willing to put in the effort for it (well, I’d like to think I am).
When I say I’m graduating early, I mean a full year earlier. I graduated high school in 2011, and will be graduating in 2014 after two years at Penn.</p>
<p>Also, I should also mention that he’s techincally my stepdad, but he neither officially adopted me nor is he my biological father. He also remarried, so when I got my financial aid, they went off my mother’s salary. He helps out, but he’s not legally required to (and this year, he’s paid for my flights home to California… I work 12-20 hours a week to pay for myself). I wouldn’t be applying to law school this year, but rather for the year after I graduate (fall of 2014?)</p>
<p>To OP, a majority of the responding posters are either lawyers or law students, i am neither. So i can give you my perspective as a parent of a daughter who will soon enroll in a law school. I am well aware of the difficulties faced by recent law graduates which have been touched on by many of the posts here. Like your stepfather, I do believe that a law degree does not necessarily confine one to practice law only. As a case in point, the admission dean at Harvard Law worked in a leading consulting firm before her current position. Likewise, our President only worked as a lawyer for a brief period. The important point is to know your own ability and interests if you do go to a law school. You need to explore the options available to law graduates in more depth than here.</p>
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It calls his bluff, and it highlights that no one should be coerced into spending $200,000 of their own money because someone (with no skin in the game) demands it.</p>
<p>From this thread, it is sort of implying that psychology is better than law. I am not sure about that. My kid’s private tennis coach is a practicing psychologist. His main income comes from teaching tennis from 3 PM - 9 PM. He teaches even during the freaking cold winters. I guess that says much about his psy practice of 25 or so years.</p>
<p>Dad’s only control is the checkbook. Pay your own way & go your own way. I’m not sure if you have an interest in teaching, but God knows the country needs English teachers. Just read the essay posts of the college candidates. BTW only a guess, but I suspect your Dad might respect such independence. GL</p>
<p>I am a headhunter for lawyers and I can tell you that I can’t swing a cat without hitting a lawyer who would love to know what all those other jobs are that they can have. Using Jessica Soban, double Harvard/Bain Capital, and the President as examples of those with law degrees doing other things is like using Gates and Zuckerberg as examples of successful people without college degrees.</p>
<p>OP: You clearly don’t want to go to law school at least at this stage in your life, so don’t go. And please don’t listen to the clueless “advice” that says look at Pres Obama-he did something else with his law degree! By that standard-just be a self-trained actor-and be president(Reagan)! It’s errant nonsense. By that fatuous standard, as cartera45 points out, just drop out of college now-you’re guaranteed to be a multi-millionaire!</p>
<p>OP - you’re getting really good advice about not pursuing law just because someone is telling you it’s a degree with future-value. There’s a lot of very accurate advice out there about both the poor employability and nonexistent transferability of the degree to other fields, so I won’t repeat it. I can mention that I recently tried to help one of my son’s unemployed classmates who graduated last year by recommending him for a nonlegal job at our Fortune 500 company, and everyone argued against it. I heard all the usual arguments: (1) he’ll leave as soon as he finds a legal job; (2) he’s been trained to argue as a lawyer, and I don’t want that in my group; (3) he’ll overstep his job and start to give unauthorized legal advice; (4) he’ll probably want to be paid as a lawyer, and we’re not going to use that degree so it has no value to us; (5) he’s just trying to get into the legal department and has no interest in my functional area, so why should I hire him instead of someone who really wants this job as a career.</p>
<p>I suggest that you find out what career advisory services are available at Penn, and get thee there asap to explore testing your strengths and interests. I also suggest that you browse careers on Monster and see if there are other jobs that tickle your fancy. You may discover a possible path forward that doesn’t involve English, law or psychology. You’ll also be able to get a snapshot of job prospects for that alternative path.</p>
<p>I’d also suggest that you continue thinking about your relationship with your Step-Dad, and how you want to move forward with your life once you graduate. It’s usually a good idea to keep an open mind when listening to others - however, at some point you’ll be financially on your own, and will have to accept the consequences of your own choices whatever they may be.</p>
<p>You are a tough bunch. Should I tell you about the two neighbors in my trailer park who have law degrees but are doing just fine with peddling derivatives. LOL. I would love to hear your opinions on the prospects of a PhD in humanities, social sciences and the biological sciences to which in comparison would make choosing law a sound career choice.</p>