<p>At D’s college, if they find drugs or alcohol in a dorm room, both students living in the room are held accountable. If the find drugs or alcohol in the suite common area, all members of the suite are held accountable. </p>
<p>In my own town, underage people found in the presence of alcohol (at a party, say) are ticketed unless they’re in the presence of their parents. </p>
<p>I have every support for the guy not doing cocaine in the common room calling security when the offenders failed to heed the earlier warning. The Marine Corps includes in their policy,“Personnel involved or who know about an abuse and do not report the incident can also be charged.”</p>
<p>Since the man who made the report had been an enlisted man, he may still be subject to the full requirements of his service while he is in ROTC. The husband of one of our administrative assistants went to college under ROTC after a three year tour as an enlisted sailor, and he was most definitely still considered a full member of the armed forces and subject to all of the rules while he was in college.</p>
You seem to be suggesting, in essence, that the fact that he is in military service makes it somehow ungrateful or disloyal to question the moral implications of his behavior. I’d call that a free pass.</p>
<p>I’d like to clarify my post and say I don’t think I would report pot use but I do think he has every right to report any illegal drug use at all.</p>
<p>It is manifestly not true that the behavior of the drug users wouldn’t harm the future of their fraternity brothers. Non-users who live with drug users are frequently caught up in the drug users’ arrests. Just look at the threads here. Several times a year, we get a post from a parent whose child was sanctioned for underage drinking because the child was at a party where there was underage drinking or had a dorm roommate who was drinking. Parents and grandparents can be arrested when the adult child living with them is using/dealing drugs. </p>
<p>If the police came in and discovered fraternity brothers openly using coke in a common room, they could’ve arrested the entire house. The ROTC guy could have been caught up in it, could have lost his scholarship, could have lost the chance to be an Army officer, could have lost the chance to go to law school and become a JAG. </p>
<p>He warned them. They kept on using. No sympathy.</p>
<p>It’s irrelevant to the present argument, but I would observe that most of the violence associated with drug use in the United States is associated with alcohol, which is not illegal.</p>
I saw what Consolation wrote and thought, “yikes, that came out sounding bad, but of course pugmadkate knows perfectly well he didn’t mean it that way, and will be too classy to jump on it.” Guess I was wrong.</p>
<p>Cocaine use is illegal and unwise, but I don’t know why anyone would call the police to report presumably fellow students using cocaine in a dorm/frat house. There are better ways of addressing this problem than having someone get a criminal record.</p>
<p>My guess is that the person who called the police has a vendetta against the students involved. Perhaps a person rejected by that frat?</p>
<p>If in fact this guy’s ROTC scholarship or status–does anyone even know if he had a ROTC scholarship?-- was going to be endangered by associating with anyone who commits an illegal act, then it is very, very strange that he would join a fraternity where you can be damned sure underage drinking was going on every year he was there. (In fact, he even made a pong table for the house. Did he police it to make sure that no underage drinkers participated? Although I actually think that would be a good thing, I very much doubt it.)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>But I did mean it that way. I do not find the decision to join the armed forces to be something that conveys an automatic assumption of honor or superiority upon the person in question. I do not join in the currently-fashionable kneejerk worship of anyone in uniform. Nor do I condemn anyone for choosing that path. There are many people in the armed forces and many motivations for their presence there. Some are motivated by economics. Some are motivated by idealism. There are both honorable and dishonorable people in the armed forces. Some of them commit heroic acts of selfless bravery and some–hopefully a tiny minority–of them commit acts of cruelty such as the My Lai macssacre or abuse of prisoners. </p>
<p>The implication of what you are saying that his act was motivated by simple self interest, and that moreover he cherry-picked which illegal act he would report to authorities.</p>
<p>NSM, Did you read the articles? The person who called campus security is a brother of the fraternity in college on an ROTC scholarship. He had asked them to not do it in public spaces of the fraternity but they kept doing it. Then campus security called the police. </p>
<p>nightchef, If you ever thought I was more concerned with appearing classy to you than I am concerned with the vilifying of an ROTC member who stood to lose everything by not reporting illegal activity, then you have been laboring under a misconception. </p>
<p>That someone has served or is serving their country in no way excuses them from being questioned about their actions. </p>
<p>However, the very idea that a veteran, ROTC member or active-duty member of the armed forces would need some sort of “free pass” to “justify” reporting illegal activity is just absurd. Or are you hoping for an armed forces that trades in a tradition of honor for the tradition of covering each others asses? Is the thinking what the armed forces needs is more Abu Ghraibs?</p>
<p>"NSM, Did you read the articles? The person who called campus security is a brother of the fraternity in college on an ROTC scholarship. He had asked them to not do it in public spaces of the fraternity but they kept doing it. Then campus security called the police. "</p>
<p>You’re right, I only skimmed the article. </p>
<p>Based on the info that I had missed, I agree with the frat brother’s actions.</p>
<p>Some people here keep referring to a fraternity’s common room (which I think in this case was described as “the pool room”) as public. I am not familiar with the layout and practices of Dartmouth fraternities, but of the Greek houses I am familiar with, common rooms are not open to the public. It would be impossible for a police officer to wander into a Greek house without either a warrant, or without the permission of someone who has the legal right to live there or without reasonable suspicion that a crime was in progress. (In this case, the reasonable suspicion presumably came from a report to the police by the ROTC member.)</p>
<p>I’m just pointing out that the danger of the entire house being charged for cocaine use, or any members at all, for that matter, is not great, unless someone is making the affirmative effort to report the activity.</p>
<p>Bay, do you have specific legal knowledge of Hanover & New Hampshire law? Do you have specific knowledge of Dartmouth College’s rules and regs about when a Dartmouth Security officer may or may not enter a college-affiliated building? (The Dartmouth Security Officer then called in the Hanover Police.)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Probably not, but then it’s not ZERO either. Plus, if you are on finaid (and don’t have a trust fund), legal counsel don’t come cheap…</p>
<p>No, I don’t have specific knowledge of New Hampshire law, but I do know that the 4th Amendment applies to searches and seizures in that State.</p>
<p>You have a point that there may be a contractual waiver of search and seizure rights as it applies to campus security and college-owned buildings. Is the SAE property owned by the college or located on the campus?</p>
<p>If you don’t have money to pay a lawyer, one will be appointed for you, etc…:)</p>
<p>I would guess that EVERY college has such. (Again, it was Campus Security who made the initial entry, and they called the police.)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Probably doesn’t matter since being a member of the approved Greek society brings with it conditions…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Great…senior research thesis due this week…two weeks before finals…and innocent(s) are overnighting in the slammer with an arrest record all bcos some foolish neighbor was snorting…yeah, that makes perfect sense to me. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>I feel saddened that any attempt to discuss this is bringing out such vitriol. Most of my posts have been quoted and attacked. Okay, fair enough. I posted on a public board. However, I have shown compassion to all participants and have just wanted to discuss feelings about the incident and have been contradicted with an aggressive force I find totally unwarranted.</p>
<p>I don’t feel this anger at those who don’t agree with me, and I am a bit surprised that they feel this anger toward me and my posts.</p>
<p>I have repeatedly stated that if the behavior of the cocaine users reflected on others via honor codes or frat rules or anything else the reporting is totally understandable. My words have been quoted out of context as if I had never said that.</p>
<p>I find this frustrating, so I have concluded that this thread is not a good use of my time or energy.</p>
<p>Consolation: sorry that the generalizations here hit a personal nerve. I certainly don’t agree with them.</p>
<p>And those who feel that the armed forces or ROTC have been disrespected, I am sorry there, too.</p>
<p>Of course, cocaine use is not our dream for any of children, but neither is binge drinking for a 22 year old even though it is perfectly legal. The difference in consequences for those involved is what makes the law hypocritical. </p>
<p>The difference between campus police and the Hanover police is that one doesn’t expect the police in their home without a warrant. I think that’s how kids feel about their space at college, rightly or wrongly.</p>
<p>I am violating my own conclusions by posting further. Peace and good wishes.</p>
<p>Dartmouth has reached out to the veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan and has invited them to apply. Some have and are attending. Dartmouth (the institution) is cool to do this. Young veterans can have a challenging time acclimating to campus life. They’ve been places and done things and college life can seem bizarre and foreign. </p>
<p>Kudos to Dartmouth and to the veterans to find a mutual path forward. </p>
<p>As to drug use in a common area: I am a former Greek and I would NEVER assume that the common room is “private” space. Folks of all sorts come and go. Members, sweethearts, delivery guys, parents, alums, tutors, coaches, . . . so leaving one’s “Stuff” out DOES endanger the house and all its members and guests. </p>
<p>I’m with Consolation – don’t reach conclusions about Greeks or frats based on this incident anymore than one should make a blanket conclusion about basketball or lacrosse or football players because of the actions of some individuals engaged in those activities.</p>