<p>Sunnyside77: It is not “social media stalk[ing]” for someone to click on your name and view your other CC posts to see if you are consistent in your positions. Not that I personally give a hoot.</p>
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<p>Unless you are in a 5 year program (engineering where you are getting both an AB and an engineering degree), Dartmouth will give you 12 terms of financial aid. Students are required to be on campus F/W/S freshman year, Sophomore Summer and F/W/S senior year. They can plan out their D-plan however they see fit. (My D studied abroad Junior fall and used Junior winter to study for the LSAT, returning Junior spring). </p>
<p>Students normally take 3 courses per quarter. A student may without permission or extra charge take during their college career a four-course load up to a maximum of three times. Theoretically this would be the equivalent to 13 terms and would help a student who has for some reason fallen off track to still graduate in 4 years.</p>
<p>Sunnyside, I rarely ever bother to look up people’s other posts here, since I just go by what is being said at a time and place, but sometimes I happen to remember someone saying something in another forum. However, there is no requirement to be consistent on something. You can play the devil’s advocate, change your mind, or decide differently on a slightly different situation.</p>
<p>Sybbie, that’s nice if you get financial aid, but for those who don’t and are budgeting carefully, it can be a killer. My son’s cost last year went up $3K because he took a summer course due to change in major. without it, he would be hard pressed to graduate in 4 years. Couldn’t find a SUNY offering the course that fit his schedule so he went private. At least he was working and living at home. If he had to take it at his regular college, it would have meant staying there over the summer with the accompanying costs. His school specifically states that ONLY summer and preadmissions colllege courses are allowed. Can’t take a term off, and take some courses at the old state school at lower amounts and have the credit count. That is in additon to the residency requirement of the school and the number of courses that have to be taken at the school.</p>
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<p>[Academics</a> | Undergraduate Majors | Dartmouth](<a href=“Majors and Minors | Dartmouth”>Majors and Minors | Dartmouth) indicates that Dartmouth grants Bachelor of Arts degrees in subjects like math, physics, and biological sciences.</p>
<p>Other schools, like Berkeley, also grant Bachelor’s of Arts degrees in those subjects.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, MIT grants Bachelor of Science degrees in subjects like literature, anthropology, political science, and history.</p>
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So… the statement one person wrote ( I don’t know who!) that the graduating time at Dartmouth is always four years is wrong…</p>
<p>12 units is full time for financial aid, but 12 units is 3/4 the time for the Dean’s lists (which require 15 credits a semester to be recognized)… If <em>all</em> Dartmouth students are currently taking classes at 3/4 the time (12 units) for 4 years (as someone on this thread alleged)… it sounds as if the college wants to increase the course load which would be challenging for those taking pre-requisites for graduate school, ect. They could possibly filling those AP credits with filler classes - useless.</p>
<p>Basically, they are requiring students to take more classes… for the same amount of time… with no benefit to the students at all… except letting the college increase their inflating tuition costs which seems to be having a bizarre domino effect across the board. This bubble is ready to pop. Of course, then they’re also giving the horrendous impression to other schools that AP credits should not be given - when not all colleges cover tuition costs, certainly do not cover costs for everyone, and AP class credits are typically used by the lower and middle classes from public schools to save cost AND time.
I was asking about Dartmouth’s graduate programs.</p>
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<p>This seems to be rather restrictive on students who find that they can handle four courses per semester.</p>
<p>Yes, if you choose to pursue the additional pre-professional engineering degree (BE) after attaining your BA it will take an extra year. That doesn’t change the fact that the standard course is 4 years. A BA in engineering can be attained in 4 years.</p>
<p><a href=“http://dartmouth.smartcatalogiq.com/2012/orc/Departments-Programs-Undergraduate/Engineering-Sciences/Engineering-Science-Requirements[/url]”>http://dartmouth.smartcatalogiq.com/2012/orc/Departments-Programs-Undergraduate/Engineering-Sciences/Engineering-Science-Requirements</a></p>
<p>And as for which majors at Dartmouth are considered liberal arts, </p>
<p><a href=“Majors and Minors | Dartmouth”>Majors and Minors | Dartmouth;
<p>(note that one can earn a BA in chemistry, biology, physics or math, among other disciplines)</p>
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<p>Cal Berkeley physics is only a BA. Ditto math. In the UC world, it just means more lit/hume courses required to graduate.</p>
<p>(btw: Cal’s Physics Prof won a Nobel a few years ago – he teaches one of those lower division ‘BA’ courses in physics.)</p>
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<p>You need 35 courses in order to graduate from dartmouth. If you are attending school for 12 terms (each term is 10 weeks) and taking 3 courses per term, then you will have the 35 courses you need to graduate.</p>
<p>35 Courses</p>
<p>All students are required to earn 35 credits and 3 PE courses in order to graduate. Typically, Dartmouth students take 3 classes per term for twelve terms.</p>
<p>[General</a> Academic Requirements for Graduation](<a href=“Home | Undergraduate Advising and Research”>Home | Undergraduate Advising and Research)</p>
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<p>While perhaps true, I’d guess very few students graduate early due to AP credits. (And no, I don’t have the data to back up my speculation.)</p>
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<p>That makes absolutely no sense, sorry. Kids are given 12 quarters in which to graduate ‘on-time’; those 12 quarters – NOT “trimesters” – are no different than every other quarter college, which includes Stanford, Chicago, Northwestern, and many of the UCs. (Approx. 20% of all colleges are on the quarter system.) </p>
<p>The federal government posts Dartmouth’s 4-year grad rate on its IPEDS website. Presumably, the feds obtain that number directly from Dartmouth. Are you suggesting that the College is lying or can’t count the number of grads in 12 terms?</p>
<p>USNews also posts D’s grad rates:</p>
<p><a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-grad-rate[/url]”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-grad-rate</a>
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<p>Perhaps, but not in the way you are thinking. Again, the D-Plan was adopted ~40 years ago as way to free up bed space to admit women to the then all-male college without having to build a bunch of new dorm space, or reduce the number of men attending.</p>
<p>Financial aid for graduate programs are is a totally different process than financial aid for undergraduate programs. Dartmouth FA policies (tuition for families that make less than 100K ) is only for the undergraduate program.</p>
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<p>The people who do a 5 year programs are receiving 2 degrees; one in engineering and an AB. Most will go to graduation with their class and receive the AB. They will come back for the 5th year for the second degree.</p>
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<p>Since not all colleges are standardized, to me all liberal arts degrees are social sciences, literature, humanities, English, philosophy, history, music… ect… which typically are BA’s as it is creative and open ended (based on writing, expression… not black and white/formulaic as in mathematics and science) hence the term “arts.” </p>
<p>Arts to me = arts: creativity</p>
<p>Science = science, mathematics: black and white, with no room for error</p>
<p>This sounds simplistic and elementary, but I am trying to explain what I meant by the previous usage of the term, not trying to be offensive.</p>
<p>Apparently there is a debate about this about the “modern” usage of liberal arts v. the “old” usage of liberal arts. Just let WiseGeek do the talking: [What</a> Are the Liberal Arts?](<a href=“What are the Liberal Arts? (with pictures)”>What are the Liberal Arts? (with pictures))</p>
<p>What I meant, anyway, when referring to how the loss of AP credits will harm non-liberal arts majors, I meant STEM majors, pre-professional majors requiring pre-requisites alongside GE, ect… which I was using in the common usage.</p>
<p>Most AP credits are not science or mathematics based (e.g., GE), even with those which are the former, they are generally lower level (freshman or sophomore level) college credits, not advanced. The STEM majors will then need to take more GE classes (not science and mathematics) as a result at Dartmouth.</p>
<p>Sunnyside, it isn’t unusual for engineering type programs among others to take more than 4 years and that is something that is right out there and up front. As Sybbie states, Dartmouth, as will other such schools take that into account in their financial aid awards. And really when those who are full pay are assessing these things, that is an issue to take into account. It would hurt us tremendously to have to pay for a fifth year or 9th semester as a full pay at a top priced private school like Dartmouth and is part of the reason why such schools are off of our list. We have a limit of what we can pay, and set the prices for schools for our kids accordingly. And we know it can take longer. </p>
<p>It’ makes it difficult when schools start changing things around like not taking AP credit or not allowing courses at other schools because some parents and students don’t look at these things as closesly during school search. AP credits, more often than not, provide a buffer for those kids who may need one when things don’t quite go so well. That my kid got AP credit for a couple of courses means that a light semester isn’t going to endanger his 4 year period at the school and reduces the chances of having to take summer school. Has a little more wiggle room. It jsut tightens the noose a little more to take this little benny away.</p>
<p>Except for the fact that D does not allow AP credits to be used for GE/Distributive classes. Thus, a science major could not fulfill a history or lit General Ed requirement with an AP course. Similarly, an Eng Lit major could not fulfill an math/science with an AP course. In all cases, Distribution (‘GE’) requirements must be fulfilled on campus. </p>
<p>Thus, the point is that D has never been that liberal with AP credit. So this move is much ado about nothing, according to my son (who had a bunch of AP credits for which there was no benefit). Heck, he argues that this really simplifies the policy up-front, so acceptees know going in, and don’t have to find out during orientation that AP credit will not fulfill mandatory requirements.</p>
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<p>Dartmouth operates on a quarter system, not a semester system. A student can and some do chose to only pursue the engineering degree (and not 2 degrees). Students who only want to pursue the engineering degree can and do graduate in 4 years. </p>
<p>The 5 year program is only for those who are pursuing 2 degrees. If a student is pursuing the engineering only degree, they will only have 12 terms of financial aid.</p>
<p>There is a tremendous amount of bloviating on this thread by people who know nothing about Dartmouth. They haven’t been students there, they haven’t been the parent of a student there, and in some cases they have no understanding at all of what it means to get a degree at an elite liberal arts school. </p>
<p>Good luck to you in attaining your nursing degree. I suggest you retire from the lists on this one. You really have no idea what you are talking about.</p>
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35 courses = 105 units if they are 3 units each. Unless Dartmouth only gives 1 unit for each course, then it would only be 35 credits.</p>
<p>According to your information, it seems as if AP is entirely useless for Dartmouth. If all colleges followed Dartmouth’s example, then there would no longer be any AP credit (cost saving, and allowing a person to graduate in a shorter time).</p>
<p>At least Harvard accepts it, letting students, according to one poster, graduate in 3.5 years. This makes Harvard even more attractive for high achieving, public school, lower and middle income AP students.</p>
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<p>PE classes. Is there a way to waive these fillers (IMO)?</p>
<p>My interest here is not in Dartmouth so much as its decision and announcement to stop taking AP credits. Had it been any school so named, I’d be making similar commentary.</p>
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<p>Nope.</p>
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<p>Yet, Dartmouth will provide a 5th year of finaid for Engin. students seeking the ABET accreditation. </p>
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<p>Yup. And hundreds of publics are extremely generous with AP credits, even with a 3+. Someone who wants to get out early, can graduate from Cal Berkeley in 2.5 years or so.</p>
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<p>Which (clearly?) is why D is clarifying their policy. That way, prospies don’t have to look “closely” – it’s all up front.</p>
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<p>Isn’t it great that we have 3000+ other colleges from which to choose? :)</p>