Dartmouth, upenn, duke, northwestern. Who's better?

[bluebayou]

<p>

Hmm, according to Parchment…

</p>

<p>hmmmm is right! (That is where your argument loses all credibility.) May I refer you to AP Stats on the validity of self-reported data?</p>

[KBronx17]

<p>@efeens44 I could be wrong, but I believe that close to 30% of Northwestern’s campus population participates in Greek Life</p>

<p>@OP Make of that what you will</p>

[Alexandre]

<p>How can anybody honestly differentiate at that level? All four universities are equally good. They are different and therefore one considering those four schools should factor in personal preferences, both academic and non-academic, but to claim that one (or more) of those schools is (are) better than any or all of the others is miseleading and definitely unsubstantiated.</p>

[1789]

<p>Duke
Dartmouth
Penn
Northwestern</p>

<p>All about the same though.</p>

[happyman2]

<p>Just want to get this out there. Phuriku is a well known anti Duke ■■■■■. Don’t give any legitimacy to his opinions. Also, I believe all four universities possess the same level of prestige. Penn may have a slightly better footing in India, and Duke is aggressively advertising in China.</p>

[collegechica7]

<p>Overall: Duke>Penn=Dartmouth>NU</p>

[Fickle]

<p>Prestige-wise, Penn > Dartmouth = Duke > NU, though NU isn’t significantly lower.</p>

[Ivyt]

<p>You should base your choice on which you like the most, not which has the most prestige. (They are essentially all equal in prestige)</p>

[UCBChemEGrad]

<p>

Phuriku is a well known anti Duke ■■■■■. Don’t give any legitimacy to his opinions.

Explain to me how Phuriku’s post is denigrating Duke?</p>

[UCBChemEGrad]

<p>

@goldenboy

I used the USWNR counselor ratings since the views of academics are far removed from what the public perceives with regards to university reputation.</p>

<p>Dartmouth > Duke > Penn > Northwestern

Haha! And why is that? Is the general public academically minded?</p>

<p>FWIW, here’s what academics say:
Penn = 4.5
Duke = 4.4
Northwestern, Dartmouth = 4.3</p>

<p>Essentially the same! Which is what experienced non-biased CC’ers have said.</p>

[rjkofnovi]

<p>FWIW, here’s what academics say:</p>

<p>Berkeley =4.7
Michigan =4.5
Penn = 4.5
Duke = 4.4
Northwestern, Dartmouth = 4.3</p>

[Alexandre]

<p>That must be it socrateschild, you cracked a mystery that has eluded America’s intellectual elite for three decades! ;)</p>

<p>Seriously, I doubt that schools like Duke or Penn and especially Dartmouth, come close to Michigan in research activity, due in part to Michigan’s size. I would certainly agree that on a per-capita basis, faculty at those schools conduct as much research, but no way do their respective faculties do so collectively. In 2011, Michigan spent $1.24 billion in research. Only Johns Hopkins exceeded Michigan nationally. Duke and Penn were both well under $1 billion ($700-$800 million if memory serves. Dartmouth doest not even crack the $250 million mark. </p>

<p>Comparing Cal to Duke, Michigan or Penn is not fair because Cal has no Medical school, which accounts for ~30-50% of research spending at Duke, Michigan and Penn.</p>

<p>At any rate, regardless of what the PA does or does not do, it is not intended to measure research output. That explains why schools like Brown or Dartmouth (both of which spend less than $250 million in research) have a higher PA than UCLA or Wisconsin (both of which spend ~$1 billion in research). Heck, Princeton, which has the highest PA in the nation, has a far smaller research output than Wisconsin.</p>

<p>Now back to the OP’s question; which is better between Dartmouth, Duke, Northwestern and Penn? As far as most well educated people are concerned, they are all peers and equally excellent.</p>

[goldenboy8784]

<p>

@Alexandre

Seriously, I doubt that schools like Duke or Penn and especially Dartmouth, come close to Michigan in research activity, due in part to Michigan’s size. I would certainly agree that on a per-capita basis, faculty at those schools conduct as much research, but no way do their respective faculties do so collectively. In 2011, Michigan spent $1.24 billion in research. Only Johns Hopkins exceeded Michigan nationally. Duke and Penn were both well under $1 billion ($700-$800 million if memory serves. Dartmouth doest not even crack the $250 million mark.

Actually Alexandre, Duke and Penn are essentially on par with Michigan even when we’re talking about the absolute level of research activity. In 2008, Duke spent $766,906 on total research, Penn spent $708,244 while Michigan spent $876,390.</p>

<p>This is according to the Center for Measuring University Performance mind you and their latest report isn’t out yet. Overall, Penn is a stronger research university than Duke or Michigan.</p>

<p>[Research-</a> The Center for Measuring University Performance](<a href=“http://mup.asu.edu/research_data.html]Research-”>http://mup.asu.edu/research_data.html)
In 2010

1. MIT, Stanford, Columbia, Penn
2. Harvard
3. Yale, Duke, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Washington, Wisconsin
4. JHU, Minnesota, Texas
5. USC, UNC-Chapel Hill, Wash U, Princeton, UCSD</p>

[Sam_Lee]

<p>^The research expenditure is too skewed by medical/clinical and bio research. UCSF was #2 despite the fact that it’s entirely a medical school. So if a school is good in these two, it’s gonna be way up there even if it’s mediocre in everything else.</p>

[Sam_Lee]

<p>^My guess is Duke’s number was more predominately driven by the med/bio research while UMich’s number was more spread out across more fields.</p>

[goldenboy8784]

<p>

@Sam Lee

^My guess is Duke’s number was more predominately driven by the med/bio research while UMich’s number was more spread out across more fields.

Why wouldn’t Michigan’s number be concentrated heavily in the medical school as well? The health system of a school usually is allocated the greatest research expenditure. There’s a lot of research happening in Duke’s engineering departments as well just like Michigan’s.</p>

[Alexandre]

<p>Sam Lee is quite right. Michigan spends as much on Medical research as Duke, but more on other academic disciplines:</p>

<p>TOTAL RESEARCH SPENDING IN FY 2011
University of Michigan: $1,240,000,000
Duke University: $983,000,000
University of Pennsylvania: $814,000,000</p>

<p>TOTAL MEDICAL RESEARCH IN FY 2011:
University of Michigan: $380,000,000
Duke University: $330,000,000
University of Pennsylvania: $534,000,000</p>

<p>TOTAL NON-MEDICAL RESEARCH IN FY 2011:
University of Michigan: $860,000,000
Duke University: 653,000,000
University of Pennsylvania: $280,000,000</p>

<p>At any rate, my point is that the PA is not a reflection of research spending or research activity. As I indicated above, schools like University of California-Los Angeles, University of Washington and University of Wisconsin-Madison each spends far more on research and have far more research activity than schools such as Brown, Dartmouth, Princeton, UVa etc…and yet, their PA is lower.</p>

[Sam_Lee]

<p>^The “non-medical research” still includes non-medical life sciences.</p>

<p>Overall, life sciences research represent almost 60% of all R&D. Yet, that’s only meaningful to undergrads if they are bio majors.</p>

<p>[nsf.gov</a> - NCSES With Help from ARRA, Universities Report $61 Billion in FY 2010 Total R&D; New Details from Redesigned Survey - US National Science Foundation (NSF)](<a href=“http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf12313/]nsf.gov”>http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf12313/)</p>

<p>That’s why one cannot use R&D expenditure to generalize all disciplines.</p>

[par72]

<p>DUKE is the best.</p>

[beyphy]

<p>

^The research expenditure is too skewed by medical/clinical and bio research. UCSF was #2 despite the fact that it’s entirely a medical school.

</p>

<p>Don’t be swayed by UCB’s propoganda. Medical schools are a part of universities. Since UCSF is an autonomous research university, its not anyone’s ‘medical school’ including Cal’s.</p>