Which is the better school in
Engineering
Computer Science
Physics
Economics
Its the same man. Try to look at which campus culture you like better. Try spending a couple of days on campus. Which campus foods do you like? How are the girls (or if you’re into guys, then guys) put together here? What are the clubs like? etc.
Don’t just focus on the academics because they will literally be of the same quality at both places and you’ll face the exact same competition from your peers.
Without checking for applicable undergrad program rankings, I’ll go out on a limb here and say that the schools are probably of comparable quality in those, and most, areas. If others want to argue over program differences, that’s fine. For my part, I’ll predict that both are going to be adequately (and probably similarly) good in anything they offer, and leave it at that.
A Penn vs. Duke (or similar…) decision should come down to these things, plus others you think are important:
- Academic fit -- academic calendar, distribution requirements, majors and courses offered, ease of declaring and changing majors, class sizes (likely similar here), research and other academic opportunities, etc.
- Social vibe -- party/greek scene, sports scene, things to do on and off campus, etc.
- Environment -- location, rural/urban/suburban surroundings, weather, campus look and convenience, etc.
- Housing and food
- Last but certainly not least, the cost of attending.
So how are both the school’s:
Dorms
Campus
Social vibes
Intensity in academics
Fun
@capitalrate Penn tends to get ranked a bit higher in all of these fields.
According to USNews:
Engineering: Penn (#19) vs Duke (#29)
CS: Penn (#19) vs Duke (#25)
Physics: Penn(#16) vs Duke (#29)
Economcis: Penn (#10) vs Duke (#16)
Penn’s slight lead in these areas is also present in all major rankings (ARWU, THE, QS, USNews World Rankings etc), and extend also to many other academic fields (medicine, humanities, business, law). also most college rankings tend to rank Penn a bit higher.
Also Duke’s RD yield was ~35.5% for the class of 2020, Penn’s was ~ 50-51%.
All that said, you shouldn’t base you decision on that, especially when it comes to undergrad. The difference isn’t big. You should mainly focus on where you fit it best. You will have pretty much the same opportunities at either place as an undergrad.
Duke and Penn undergrad have many similarities and differences. Both are known for their great social life combined with top botch academics. Both have a strong pre-professional element without neglecting the liberal arts and intellectualism.
The biggest difference is location. Penn is in a major city, Duke is not. Personally I think Dukes campus is prettier but Penns location is better. but that is subjective.
@Penn95 Interesting how you quote graduate school rankings to back up your claim that those academic disciplines at Penn are superior to Duke. It looks like you purposefully ignored the undergrad engineering rankings (which is what the OP is more concerned about), which places Duke at #18 and Penn at #24. While we’re still splitting hairs I find this detail very telling.
I also love how you quote regular decision yield without providing some context on why those numbers are what they are (i.e. Penn’s reputation for gaming admissions by admitting half their class early.). Duke is known for not caring about a student’s potential to choose Harvard or Stanford over the school and admit based on qualifications and fit for the school.
I also don’t think the location difference amounts to that significant of a difference as you might think. As somebody has lived in London, DC, and Chicago for extended periods (so I certainly DO have an appreciation for large cities), as an undergraduate student, the environment and offerings of the campus itself prove to be much more important for quality of life. 95% of your time is spent on or very near campus (well, it varies, but there is no shortage of things to do). Certainly, it’s nice that Duke is an an area of 1.5M people where there are ample restaurants (Durham is known as a GREAT foodie city, check out the NY Times article), shops, etc. around and it’s not in the middle of nowhere, but I don’t think being in an urban environment of 1M+ really has that much of an impact on your experience, except for fewer green spaces on campus and not being able to go do bars/clubs until you’re 21 (around Duke, many – but not all-- bars/clubs cater to the college crowd so everybody is allowed in, but just not allowed to drink. Obviously, that is not the case in Philly). Having said that, living in Philly (or some other large city) vs. Durham AFTER college definitely is a VERY different experience (and I am one who prefers large metropolitan cities personally).
I also think the academic differences in those departments are negligible. The social vibes are relatively similar too in that both schools have strong school spirit and similar study bodies that like to be social/have fun and largely pre-professional. Really, Duke and Penn are huge overlaps. I say this as somebody who chose Duke (BME major), but Penn was a close #2 for me. I just found the sense of community slightly stronger at Duke (in my personal opinion, others may come to a different conclusion) and the amazing weather and basketball didn’t hurt either. (I didn’t think weather was a big deal, but it’s nice being able to hang out outside basically all year long as it enhances the social experience.) I also liked the beautiful sprawling campus and architecture. And I felt that basketball would give me a connection to the university for life.
I think that covers all your additional elements asked about except dorms. No idea how the dorms are on the inside at Penn compared to Duke, but Duke has invested a ton of money recently to renovate many of them and built several new ones. The ones at Penn look like typical city high rise dwellings to me, but I didn’t go in one when I took the tour of the campus.
It really comes down to fit and where you’d be more excited to attend as they’ll offer a similar academic rigor and social experience. You also posted the exact same question about Duke vs. NU, so perhaps you just wait to see where you get in before doing this analysis as they may make the decision for you. Good luck.
@Jwest22 Graduate school rankings matter quite a bit for departmental strength. The USNews undergrad engineering ranking is pretty baseless, it is just a subjective survey without any real facts behind it, so i don’t think it is worth looking into. On the other hand grad school rankings give a better view about the standing of the departments. But as you noticed i never said Penn is meaningfully better than Duke for engineering. Or that Penn provides better opportunities for undergrad. I said that one will get equal opportunities at both places. But i guess you missed that.
Regarding yield, what are you talking about?! I specifically mentioned Regular Decision yield rate to get rid of the advantage Penn has by admitting a (slightly actually) bigger % of the class ED than Duke. Regular Decision yield is not affected by ED practices, the overall yield is affected. Btw Duke admits about 47% of the class ED, so not that much lower than Penn, and pretty close to half the class.
Last year the overall yield rates were: Penn (68%) vs Duke (50.4%). The RD yield rates were Penn (~51%) vs Duke (~36%). So yes Penn gets a boost by admitting a higher % of the class ED than Duke (55% vs 47%), but it also has a significantly higher RD yield rate.
Not going to waste time on numbers that don’t mean much when you’re actually in and out of college. Duke is somewhere you go if you want to genuinely enjoy your college experience.* Unlike many of the Ivys, it’s very collaborative and not cutthroat which is a great and healthy environment to be in. As for the literal environment, there’s much better weather in NC, and you can’t go wrong with Southern soul food and all the great hole-in-the-wall eateries in the local area. Academically, you’ll have a wealth of opportunities available at both schools, but it’s all comes down to YOU and how you take advantage of them.
The most important part is what your personal goals are. UPenn’s New England position may be more useful for your professional goals for instance (though there can be perks to being far from hubs like New York in that recruiters will expect fewer internships from you). I also hope you realize that no one can accurately compare both schools as most people haven’t attended both, and even if we’re talking transfers–they’re most likely biased against the school they transferred from.
*Not saying UPenn isn’t, but I wouldn’t know personally as I don’t attend UPenn. All I know is Dukies are obsessed with Duke, both current students and alums. This has both tangible benefits (in terms of getting a job) and intangible (being happy during your four years).
Excellent and grounded response, @allthelamps !
Both are top schools, so it depends on what one focuses. I agree with those prezbucky said.