Deadbeat Parents... Any Options?

Paying for College
141

<p>Lerkin, </p>

<p>Parents often don’t know each other and some parents don’t think. </p>

<p>I agree wholeheartedly with absweetmarie because there’s so much we don’t know. (Is there a history of mental illness? Is the little brother special needs? The OP mentioned disagreements with the stepmom-- has the OP been living with dad for only a short time? – Remember that if the OP lived in most other states, even if dad was living in NY, there wouldn’t have been a legal likelihood that dad would have been required to pay college.) I am not asking the OP to answer or post the details of his/her life but, yes, I do feel rather strongly that the course of action depends on those specifics. And I also think strongly that if the situation with dad is bad, other relatives-- maybe mom’s side of the family-- should give this kid a home. </p>

<p>I sort of assumed however that Sybbie-- who is a longtime poster and someone I respect-- has reached out to this kid and has more info than is posted here.</p>

142

<p>This situation is one where it is impossible to even begin giving advice what to do, other than to go to someone who knows NY and federal law in these matters. Though NY state does have support requirements, the intent of the those laws are for unmarried parents, and not fodder for a child to sue the parents for support. In can happen, and there can be awards, but every step has to be very carefully taken, and from what I have read directly from the OP, this is not going to be the case. In part because of some actions that the OP has made. The OP needs to see an attorney to find out exactly what the best course of action is.</p>

<p>Overlying all of this is the fact that parents are not required to pay for college in most all cases without some direct contractual agreement involved. They are not required to fill out any financial aid forms and they are not required to support kids over age 18 except under special circumstances. The NY State law is deceptive out of context because it simply is not true that at age 18, NYers can leave home and sue their parents to support them. Yeah, I’ve known some kids who have tried taking this tack.</p>

<p>A lot of parents refuse to fill out FAFSA. They don’t want to release private financial information. Sometimes it’s just on principle like my husband’s uncle who made it nearly impossible for his kids to get any aid for college because he was so secretive about his finances, and sometimes because there may be some problems that the parent does not want to face or let anyone know. Perhaps no taxes have been filed. in the case of someone who earns a large amount of money, they see no point in filling out the forms and letting all of their private business out when they well know their kids aren’t getting anything in aid anyways. Most of parents have no idea how Staffords and PLUS work. Up until a few years ago, FAFSA was not even required for PLUS. </p>

<p>It appears that things were going along at a tolerable pace until this spring. Student is a senior, took college boards, applied to colleges, was living with Dad and Stepmom. Then Dad states that he isn’t paying for the college. What else was said, and in what sequence is anybody’s guess. But if Dad doesn’t want to pay for college, the chances are pretty good he is not going to have to do so. Yes, the child can sue, but the outcomes of these suits have not been good, and it can be a long time before one gets sees any money even if the case is solid gold. We see any number of kids on this board whose parents are able to pay, on paper, and from what we can glean from stated living situations, but they feel they cannot and, bottom line, will not. In theory, DH and I can pay for the top priced private colleges and my kids did apply to some of them, but we drew a line at a certain point. We know other parents who make a lot more than we do, or seem to do so and they stipulate only in state publics or schools to which their kids can commute. My close friend’s husband who was a surgeon, refused to pay at all for his kids’ college and though was sued, prevailed for a number of reasons. </p>

<p>Here, we see a lot of parents, usually the dads, who refuse to pay for anything other than the top name schools. If the kid doesn’t get into HPY, then it’s local college and work your way through, is the word. A lot of these families have complex financial issues due to the way money was managed (or mismanaged), long term commitments, life styles and more than one family. Sometimes the relationships to the children are not what those of us on CC who are primary, caring parents have with our children. My brother’s former girlfriend was a daughter of the third wife of a very well to do and in some circles, well known person, and she had about 20 steps and half siblings. In her case, yes, college was paid for, but there was hardly any relationship between her and her father who was on his 6th marriage at the time we met the young woman. Apparently, there were always law suits flying around as to who owed whom what in that scenario. I also have a number of friends who are step moms who hardly know their step kids and then college comes into the picture. If there is not the affection and sense of obligation present between parent and child, college funds are not forth coming except by law. Hence the NY State law, but its interpretaion and enforcement is a whole other issue. </p>

<p>It is a sad story, when a child loses a primary parent and is then with a parent who is not invested emotionally to the child. At best, young adult children can be difficult and it is a rare parent who has not threatened to throw his/her kid out if certain behavior or situations occur. But those of us who are emotionally tied, find it hard to do so, even when the case warrants it. Not so with a parent who is just doing what he has to do legally. Kids living in that situation do have to walk a very narrow line to get what they want, especially if there is no legal obligation to do so because the love and care are not there.</p>

143

<p>I want to add, that there were several cases when well meaning parents intervened in situations where they had no business sticking their noses when there were crises between their kids’ friends and those kids’ parents, in my neck of the woods. The well meaning parent who “lent” the money for the OP to get a room, probably just squelched any support case for the kid. It takes a professional who knows the law, not just as it is written, but how it is enforced to apply it to these situations. The emotion and drama has to be removed from the situation and then everything has to be apprised. </p>

<p>Every year, I see the scenario where a kid leaves home in a huff after some scene and thinks he’s entitled to support due to NY state law that some friend, usually someone from a divorce situation, tells him works that way. I’m sure Sybbie, working in her capacity sees this as well. Unless there is some abuse here, the best thing that the OP can do is reconcile with Dad and work out something regarding college. The upshoot may well be commuting to a CUNY and working part time, the same thing the OP can do on her own, but with more financial margin. Yes, the OP can opt to be emancipated and get loans, maybe PELL, but that isn’t going cover living in NYC and cost of college. Even with a job it will be tight. But that may be the only course to take, if it is truly a situation where reconciliation is not possible. One thing I can say for sure, it 's going to be a while before the OP will see a dime of the money if her father decides to fight the case, even if every bit of the law applies and is on the OP"s side. I’ve seen people who know they are going to lose a law suit throw down serious money just to make the life fo the person suing them more miserable by tangling up the case that much longer. “Buy me $50K of trouble and roadblocks” is what I have heard said. And it can be done. That the OP’s dad is an attorney makes it even less expensive for him to take that path. If the OP truly has a case, so s/he and legal services should pursue it, but s/he needs to needs to move on with life and not wait for the resolution, because you can wait a long, long time. Advice will be crucial on how to live and what not to do while such a case is pending.</p>

144

<p>I want to add to cpt’s earlier posts (several pages back) that sometimes kids feel like their parents are being mean not because the parents really mean, but because the situation is such that both parties are hurt.</p>

<p>Sometimes parents say things they don’t really mean.</p>

<p>Recently I got so upset at my son that I told him that from now on he can only rely on me for basic needs and he will need to get a job if he needs money for anything other than school lunches. I did not really mean what I said, but I was very upset with his behavior. We eventually worked it out with my son acquiring more volunteering hours, but for a week we had very tense situation at home. If some misguided adult helped my son to move out during that week, I am pretty sure it would have created very undesirable situation for my son.</p>

<p>That being said, if OP lived with his dad since really early age, the fact that only OP’s younger sibling attends private school is a red flag to me. However, if OP started out in the public school prior to moving in with dad, than sibling going to private school may have no meaning.</p>

145

<p>

</p>

<p>There is never a dull moment at work and I hear all kinds of stories. Yesterday, I was called in to my co-worker’s office because a frehman student on her case load had completely shut down and stopped talking. </p>

<p>She had wrapped the string of her hoodie around her neck and starting pulling on the other end, trying to choke herself. All we could do was keep talking to her, keep her calm and coax her away from the window until school safety, the EMT and the cops came. It took 2 cops to restrain her while the school safety officers cut string from around her neck. </p>

<p>My cowoker accompanied the student to the hospital, where she said with the student until 7 pm. The hospital called mom who straight up said, she was not coming to the hospital. She told them that she was tired of her daughter’s mess and the only thing that was wrong with her daughter was that she needed Jesus. My co-worker spoke with the hospital personnel who were reluctant to contact ACS because of mom’s refusal to come to the hospital.</p>

<p>At the crux of all of this, the student did not have any money to come to school. She had lost her metro card and her mom refused to give her $2.50 for school. She went to see the boyfriend, who said that he was going to marry her when they got older. She asked the BF for money, he gave it to her. She asked him if he still was going to marry her, he said, not know because I need to get myself together and finish school.</p>

146

<p>Lerkin, here in NY, it would not be a red flag to me. Happens all of the time. I belong to a book club with members who have kids mixed in private/public schools, some steps, some halfs, some neither. Sometimes kids are put in private school because they can’t hack the public option that might be a great choice. My neighbor has her twins in a private school for special needs because they can’t cope in our what is considered a very good school district, and her goal in the next few years is to get them into that public school. Also, though there is sibling preference, you can’t always get all of your kids into certain private schools, and the public schools might be a better choice than those privates that such kids can gain admittance. The age of the younger sibling, 5, is the same age as my nephew who is entering Kindergarten next year…at a private school which is the continuation of his nursery and pre school. His sister is in first grade at the public school and he will join her there in first grade. </p>

<p>From what the OP has said, s/he was living with Dad and stepmom, senior year at least, taking the SATs, applying to college until…something happened this spring. According to the OP, Dad said to OP that he was not going to pay for college and that OP had to leave the house in July, as soon as OP graduated high school in June. and that Dad was not going to contribute any thing more to OP. In what context this was conveyed, what immediately happened before this conversation, we don’t know. There is another thread on this board where the poster has a dad making $300K who told his son, that he was not going to contribute to college. I’ve actually seen a number of such posts over the years. </p>

<p>I can speculate on any number of things that might have happened to have come to this, but the upshoot is that the OP moved out, was not kicked out, with the help of some adult No abuse or neglect issues have been brought up.</p>

147

<p>Cpt,</p>

<p>I understand your point regarding private/public schools. It IS very different from Midwest, where the choice of schools is not that vast, getting into private school is not THAT big of a deal (even into college prep ones) and one can use open enrollment to enroll their kids into public school of their choice (there are some programs that require district resident status though, but the student can still attend a school of their choice - this is what my husband and I have done with both of our kids).</p>

148

<p>Also, Lerkin, look at the age of the younger sibling. My kids went to an age 3-6 private Montessori school before going to first grade in public school, sort of what my brother is doing now. </p>

<p>Honestly, it is often a tense situation when there is a step situation. Many times the feelings are not the same towards steps and when an ultimatum is issued, it is easier to stick to it when that emotion is not involved. I have often felt that I am blackmailed by my emotional attachment to my children and in some cases probably capitulated and enabled when someone who was not so involved would have done better. It is a fact of life that if your parents are not emotionally invested in you, you do have to be more careful about toeing the line.</p>

149

<p>

Getting into private school in Manhattan is very, very hard. I could totally see that the family’s finances and the father’s status would be totally different from kid one to kid two. Also, to be completely honest, if her dad is making $500,000 at his age, then he isn’t a partner at a top firm because that’s the payscale for associates/counsel. Also, there is the issue of connections. Perhaps stepmom has connections or dad now does and didn’t then. The flip side is that it can be equally tough to get into a really good public school program, depending on the location and situation. So who knows which child actually is in the first choice school. Possibly both, possibly neither.</p>

<p>I wonder if something happened that caused the parents to throw up their hands and have done with it. Was the plan always that they wouldn’t pay or was that in response to something else?</p>

150

<p>That’s something we don’t know, Zooser. I’ve increasingly seen parents refuse to pay private school prices who are in the financial position, at least on paper, to do so. Some will only pay if the school is one they deem “worth it”. But, also, sometimes parents don’t face the financial facts of college until the acceptances have arrived and the deposits need to be sent and the reality of the dollar amount and what has to be done to pay them really hits. They have to liquidate an account, they have to tighten that belt and do all sorts of things they simply do not want to do. </p>

<p>My friends husband never said anything about not paying for college and it was always assumed he would pay until time came to pay the deposit. He then dropped the bomb that he had spoken to his attorney and learned that he did not have to pay child support after the student graduated high school, something that was clear in the divorce decree and that PA state law exempted him from any college payment responsibilities and since he felt he was reamed in the child support and divorce settlement, he was not going to pay a dime. End of the matter. And he did not pay. He did get the kids cars and expensive gifts treated them to vacations, dinners out, bought them stuff and even gave out cash here and there, but not a dime would he pay for their college. I think he got pleasure out it for the 6 years he watched my friend, the mother scrimp and try to get the two kids through college. She sacrificed a good part of her divorce settlement assets which have to get her through the rest of her life along with soc sec payments, as she does not make much money–she took a deadly hiatus from work as a stay at home mom. The kids both went to state colleges, one commuted and worked her way through, even though they went to private school before that–divorce decree had mandated that the father continue to pay for those schools as they were going there at the time the parents split. And this is a guy who supposedly loves his kids–they love him, and he does spend time with them and give them gifts and seem to enjoy them. Just refused to pay for their college. </p>

<p>I can give examples up the whazoo about parents who won’t pay for college and if steps and half siblings are involved, all fairness seems to go out the window.</p>

151

<p>I want to also share a situation where a woman I know very well, whose kids went to school with mine, also has a step daughter. The Dad and woman rarely saw the young woman, so there was not much of a relationship, though Dad paid his child support. He and the mom were never married, and the child was born when he was in his early 20’s and the parents went their separate ways, with mom keeping the child. Dad did not make much money for a long time, being a professional musician, but in the last 20 years has been doing very well. Married and has a family of 3 kids and, yes, they all went to private school, they live in an expensive neighborhood, and live a luxurious life. Don’t know when or how the child support started or was adjusted. No agreement was in place for college.</p>

<p>When the girl was of age for college apps, Dad said he would pay fully for NY state or CT (where the daughter and mom lived ) state school COA with some conditions (reasonable ones) attached. There were other scenarios very clearly explained. The maximum amount Dad would pay, however, if the D chose to go to a school that exceeded the maximum cost of the designated state schools, was the maximum amount. Girl wanted to go to some private school that was FAFSA only in fin aid awards, but was at the time more than double the cost of the maximum amount stipulated. She refused to apply to any state schools. </p>

<p>In April, the girl’s school counselor called the father and essentially blasted him for being so stingy. The story the girl told everyone in her life was completely different, and the dad did send out the paperwork that laid out the options to the counselor, and some other places after that incident. In this case, it was all on paper, so it was clear, but had it been a verbal agreement, it would have been a word vs word situation. Very, very ugly. and the woman I know, was very upset. Now that the young lady is older, she has been coming around Dad more, and it is not a good situation. She did not finish school, has her memories and versions of things, but the unpleasant fact of the matter is that her Dad and step mom do not love her. They have no emotional attachment to her; just a sense of obligation. The young woman probably feels the same towards them. But her mom is totally broke and lives in a bad situation, so Dad has a bit more to offer. It is a sad thing, but when you look at some kids who don’t even have these options, what can one say? Not all parents care about their kids. SOme have just truly had enough–too much and the emotion is wrung dry, not necessarily by the kid either, but by life.</p>